Q&A Types of White Flour, Their Weights and How Much Water to Use
Q: I want to use a white flour with higher protein, how do I adjust the recipe?
A: We wrote the original white-flour Master Recipe for The New Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day with typical all-purpose white flour (such as Gold Medal), which has a protein content of about 9.8-10.5%. The following flours have a greater protein content and will require you to add more water to dough that is entirely made from these white flours. You don’t need all that extra water if white flour only part of the loaf’s flour mixture.
King Arthur All-Purpose, 11.7% protein (add approximately 1/4 cup extra water to the full recipe).
Dakota Maid All-Purpose: add approximately 1/4 cup extra water to the full recipe
Canadian all-purpose flour, most brands: add approximately 1/4 cup extra water to the full recipe
Gold Medal Better for Bread 12.5% protein: add approximately 1/3 cup extra water to the full recipe
King Arthur Bread Flour 12.7% protein (add approximately 1/3 cup extra water to the full recipe)
Any “bread” flour: Most flour labeled as “bread flour” is 12-13% protein (add approximately 1/3 cup extra water to the full recipe). In Europe, this flour is labeled as “strong flour.” If a flour is labeled as “high-gluten” it’s probably 14-15% protein (add approximately 1/2 cup extra water to the full recipe).
Q: What is the weight of the flour that you use?
A: We wrote the book with measures because we find that most people are still using cup measures when baking. We have been pleasantly surprised at the number of our readers that are scaling their recipes. Here are the weight equivalents to the flour that we use:
1 cup all-purpose flour = 5oz
6 1/2 cups all-purpose flour (master recipe) = 2 pounds
1 cup whole wheat = 4 1/2 oz
1 cup of rye = 4 1/4 oz
Q: What should the “hydration” of the dough be?
A: Again, we tried to avoid confusing professional language in the book, but several people have asked about bakers percentages and hydration levels for white flour. The hydration needed for dough storage will vary with to the type of flour you are using. “Hydration,” when the term is used by professional bakers, means the ratio of the water weight to the flour weight, expresed as a percentage. High protein flours absorb much more water and will require you to add more water. Here are the hydration levels we’ve used, but remember, this applies to dough made from white flours (whole grain is a different story, requiring higher levels of hydration):
When using most all-purpose flours (eg., Gold Medal): 75% hydration
When using Gold Medal Better for Bread: 83% hydration
When using King Arthur all-purpose: 81% hydration
When using King Arthur bread flour: 83% hydration
When using most bread flours: 83% hydration
When using most high-gluten flours: 85% hydration
More in The New Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day, and our other books. If you use vital wheat gluten to get an airier crumb with whole grains loaves, you need even more hydration–see The New Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day.
We recommend that you follow the Master Recipes in our books as we have written them until you get a feel for the proper consistency. Once you know what it should feel like then it is wonderful to play with other flours.
Click here if you want to understand baker’s percentages.
Note: BreadIn5.com is reader supported. When you buy through links on the site, BreadIn5 LLC earns commissions.
Jeff, Zoe, I have been using Safeway “O Organics” unbleached all-purpose flour. I am suspecting since I have a dense crumb issue that this flour has a higher protein content, but I can’t find any confirmation of that.
Is there any way to determine protein percentage from the nutritional information?
Hi Roger,
Unfortunately the companies don’t put the protein content on the bags in any way that is useful for baking. I am not familiar with this particular flour. There may be a phone number or website on the bag that may be helpful in finding out.
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I just bought your new book “Healthy Bread…” and am very excited to try making your bread.
I want to start making your Olive Spelt bread on page 96 but would like tips on how to make it with just Spelt and no wheat flour whatsoever. In fact I was wondering if there is an easy way to substitute spelt for wheat throughout the recipes. It just so happens that my issue is not gluten but wheat. I think this is the case with more and more people as most wheat available in the US has been genetically modified. Please let me know if there is any way to substitute out wheat for something else. Gluten is okay. I love Rye, Spelt, Buckwheat, Quinoa, Millet and use these already in many recipes. I just haven’t been brave enough to try Breadmaking yet:)
Thanks so much!
CM
CM: For starters, why don’t you try the 100% spelt substitution we describe in the recipe on page 79 of that book (see the first ingredient on the list). Be aware that this swap produces a wetter dough but it still works well in a loaf pan; if you want a free-form loaf you need to decrease the water by about 1/4 to 1/2 cup depending on your particular spelt product.
The other thing– our recipes in HBin5 call for vital wheat gluten, a wheat protein that can’t be eaten by celiacs. Spelt has some gluten, though lower than regular wheat. It’s the added gluten that makes our whole-grain doughs storable. Jeff
Thanks Jeff! Gonna give it a try and keep you posted!
CM
i am stuck now with 25 lbs of all purpose BLEACHED flour, what can i do to it to be able to use it with your book since u call for unbleached…. any suggestions? tnks, i’d hate to throw it away since i’ve never used bleached flour i dont know what to do with it… misread label…
Claudia: you can use it, just use a little less water. Maybe 1/8 cup less. See what you think of the dough. Depending on the bleached flour, you may not need to decrease, or you may need to decrease even more than that.
The loaves may spread sideways, but they’ll be delicious, don’t throw out all that flour– agree, what a waste that would be. Jeff
tnks for answering so quick. I started using your book 2 weeks ago but my crumb is still a little dense, little did i know that most flour at local supermarket is bleached flour. Out of 6 different brands only one said unbleached flour and yes my dough is wet. I also live at a 6100 altitude which may be another factor. I felt so discourage today after making whole wheat bread from ;your healthy book, but after receiving and answer i decided i would not quit till i get right. Im a perfectionist. One more question, when i mix the ingredients, does the dough have to be completely incorporated ? Its kinda hard to do that with a spoon and im afraid to mix with stand mixer since i dont want to knead
Hi Claudia,
You can certainly use a stand mixer to make your dough. It won’t hurt the dough at all. You want the dough to be completely incorporated, so there are no dry lumps of flour. Some people find this easier to do with a mixer and others with a spoon.
Have you read our post on baking at high altitudes? https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144
Thanks, Zoë
thank you both zoe and jeff, my pizza, calzone and boule came out beautifully yesterday. My problem is not the altitude it was my oven that was off by 75 degrees, i never bother to check because its a brand new stove and with convection so i thought it was fine. I reset temperature and used old 1/2 in bricks instead of a pizza stone since i cant find the one i had and it was a success. I was jumping up and down with excitement. I am now telling my friend at school who has been making bread forever using the old kneading tecnique. I took a piece of bread to her and she could not believe how wonderful it was. I am defenitely suggesting your book to anybody i know… cant wait for the new one to come out and will be buying the old ones soon since i checked them out the library… thanks so much again…
Thanks Claudia,
So glad it worked out!
Enjoy, Zoë
I m sorry but havr not had a chance to read every post so this may already be answered very clearly. I am having a hard time finding unbleached flour….can bleached be used at all? if so, waht are the adaptations needed ? sorry if this is redundant……
Hi Beth,
You can use bleached flour, but you will need to reduce the water by about 1/4 cup.
Thanks, Zoë
hi guys, i found this great supermarket that carries all kinds of great flour by bulk, my question is would unbleached white flour be the same as unbleached all purpose? it seems a little thiner than the commercial brand and when i used it it was much easier to mix. I guess iam concerned since it doesnt say all purpose. What should i look for.
Claudia: My best guess is that, yes, it’s the same. Check with the supermarket people, they may know for sure.
Where are you located– sounds like the way British flours are labeled, but not necessarily. Jeff
i am in california in the san bernardino mountains, the store i found it at is called WINCO, there is only one around my area but the have a huge selection of grains, flours, all kinds of stuff in bulk, i mixed their flour yesterday and during the first 2 hrs it rose like u have no idea, its got tons of little holes so i will be using it today. I also made a batch with the gold medal unbleached all purpose flour and and this one did not rise as much. I dont know whether is the flour or the yeast. I will keep u guys posted. I’ve been trying differents ways since i am at 6100 elevation, but so far this one seems to be the best looking flour…. tnk u guys
Claudia: Check the protein content, suspecting it’s a high-protein flour. Nice initial rise, but sometimes you get a drier dough which doesn’t rise well later in the storage period unless you compensate w/extra water.
Not saying you need to do that at this point…
Have both your books and have had lots of success with each, but a question. Why do you add water first in the artisan master recipe and last in the healthy master recipe?
Lyman: In HB5, we use vital wheat gluten, which has to be mixed with dry ingredients first or it clumps. If you wanted to standardize, you can start with dry ingredients for both books. Jeff
Hi, I’m using your HB5 and love it, now I need to add more protein to the bread. I read the posts about using soy flour and will try some, any other tips on how to add more protein to balance the ratio between carbs and protein?
I wrote this question a while ago somewhere on this website, but now I cant find it and never saw the response…sorry!!!
Not sure what you’re referring to, check out my post on “Cornell Bread” at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1365. Other things you can add:
skim milk powder
liquid milk, whole or skim
Meats, cheeses (many in the books)
High-protein nuts…
I would like to make an enriched bread, like the Soft Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread on Page 92 in HBin5, but I want to use ALL whole wheat flour. Your recipe uses 7 1/2 cups total flour and 3 2/3 cups liquid (not counting the eggs). I notice that the 100% WW Bread on page 79 uses 7 cups of WW flour and 3 3/4 cups liquid, which is very close. Can I just use all whole wheat for the enriched recipe and keep the rest the same, or do I need to make changes to other ingrediants?
Hi Tami,
If you replace the AP flour with WW flour, you will need to use a bit more water. WW flour absorbs more liquid, so the dough will be too dry and not store well if you don’t adjust the hydration. Sometimes these things just take some playing around to get it just how you want. You may want to start with a half recipe.
Thanks, Zoë
Do you use diastatic or non-disastatic malt flower to the English Granary-Style Bread recipe? Thanks!
Go with non-diastatic. If it’s not labeled either way, it’s probably non-diastatic. Jeff
Hi,
I would like to make the whole wheat sandwich bread on page 92 of HB in 5 min./ Day. But I have the following flour: white whole wheat, bread flour, and vital wheat gluten. How should I adjust this recipe or is there a better one to try with these ingredients? I have a lot of bread flour and would like to use it up, but I don’t see that used in these recipes.
Kristin: Given that this loaf is mostly WW, and you can swap out WWW for WW at will, this isn’t going to make much difference. The bread flour absorbs more water, so there are two possibilities: decrease the water a touch, or decrease the VWG by half or so.
If the dough seems too wet, then I went too far. Will take a bit of experimentation, but the bread flour will work great. Possibly with no adjustment at all. Jeff
I have just baked my first ABF5 loaf using the master recipe on page 55 of your newest book. I have a good deal of experience with making sourdough bread and use fresh ground whole wheat flour as well as Guisto’s organic Baker’s Choice unbleached flour. I followed the instructions as written, but when it came to pulling up a 1# lump of dough, what I had at first taken hold of separated on it’s own from the rest of the dough so that I did not come away with quite 1#. From the picture in your book it looks as though my dough did not have adequate gluten formation that would lend itself to stretching and cutting. I went ahead and formed a loaf with what I had gathered which did turn out well. I’m just wondering if there is something I can do to increase the gluten factor. I’m storing the starter dough in a stone crock in the refrigerator. When I first mixed it, I let it set at room temperature for about 5 hours, then refrigerated it overnight before baking it in the morning.
Hi Linda,
Just to be clear you are baking from ABin5, our first book? Our second book Healthy Bread in Five introduces a product called Vital Wheat Gluten, which increases the gluten in the dough and helps with the problems you are encountering. We find that people who are using grains that are ground at home can not get the flour as fine and it tends not to produce as much gluten. Adding VWG into the dough may be your answer. Was your dough particularly wet?
Here is a post about Vital Wheat Gluten in our recipes: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1087
Thanks, Zoë
I just bought Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day and have been reading through it. I thought I read about “bromate” but can’t find it. I went on-line and found out about bromate but want to know if I need to add anything to my bread recipes if my flour is “unbromated”.
Loretta: we’ve never used “bromate” in our recipes, you must have heard something about this somewhere else. King Arthur flour makes a big point about their flours being “unbromated,” which is fine with us. Don’t know if other commercial flours have added bromate, maybe they just don’t draw attention to that.
I wouldn’t worry about it– I’m guessing you have KAF flour and it works nicely in our recipes. See our FAQ (click above) to read about adjusting the water when you use this flour… Jeff
Love, love, love the books, I have buttermilk bread rising now, whole wheat in the fridge and up next is pesto bread!
Anyway, my question is this: I always use unbleached flour in my bread, but I was just given 50 lbs of Gold Medal bleached flour and don’t know what to do with it. Is there any way to modify your recipes so I can use up this flour??
Thanks.
Krista: Should work with a slight decrease in water, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 cup. You many find the loaves spread sideways a bit more than you’re used to if these are free-form loaves. Jeff
i’d like to try to make your rye bread recipe but i wanna bake the bread in a loaf pan instead of the stone, do i need to adjust the temperature? any suggestions…
Claudia: Same temp, but depending on loaf size, may need to increase baking time slightly. A really large pan (2 pounds of dough) might need more like 45 to 60 min rather than the 30 min we spec for a 1-pounder. Use a thermometer to check oven temperature; esp important w/large loaves. Like https://bit.ly/czmco2
Jeff
Hi. I am wondering whether you have tried using brown rice syrup in place of honey or agave syrup in any of your recipes. I am thinking about trying it with Betsey’s Seeded Oat Bread (p. 147 in Healthy Bread in 5 Min). I know you generally encourage substitutions, but I haven’t read any mention of this sweetener. Thanks.
Katie: Haven’t seen it, but I’m guessing it will work just fine. Jeff
This is in response to Katie’s question about using brown rice syrup in the recipe. I use it all the time and it works great and no bees had to starve over it. I hope that helps. You can also use agave nectar too.
Peggy
Hello,
I’m a lil bit confuse about the measurement… I’ve tried this recipe two time, first using cup to measure and then, like a habit, I weighted it, and it was 1.050 kg, I add 3 cups of water and it turned out to be a lil bit dry. In the second try, I use the amount of flour you suggest in FAQ – 2 pound = 906gg, and because I use semi coarse flour with 13.3% protein, I increased the liquid 1/3 cup according to the advice. It turned out really wet and runny and I could not handle it after first rising… Now the dough is sitting in fridge, I don’t know if it would be any firmer after… Was I wrong at some point? Should I decrease the water to the point of original recipe?
Should I throw the current wet dough and start over? Anyway to fix?
Which book do you have– which recipe on which page? Let us know and we can help you figure this out.
Should be able to work some flour into your too-wet stuff and salvage this batch. Jeff
I followed the master white dough recipe on this website. I’ve baked a baguette out of that wet dough, it did rise, but the crum is somehow dense…
If next time I use the same semi coarse flour (13.3% protein), do I need to add more water or just use the same amount as listed in the original recipe?
And thank a lot for your immediate answer, so kind of you!
Hi Guzcon,
Next time start by adding 1/4 cup extra water for a flour that is above 12% and see if that gets you to the right consistency. Have you watched any of our videos to see if your dough resembles ours? https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63 Be sure to watch the ones for the white master.
You can always add more flour or water to an existing dough. You will just have to let it set for a couple of hours to allow the old dough to absorb it.
Thanks! Zoë
Deep thank to your answers! I’m ready to make my third dough, more confident.
I would like to purchase your book but seem like we don’t have it here, in Finland, how sad…
Hi Guzcon,
Enjoy the bread! Our book just came out in England and is done in metrics, perhaps that would be more helpful? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Five-Minute-Bread-revolutionary-kneading/dp/0091938945/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301062035&sr=8-1
Thanks, Zoë
Hope this is not to far off topic but I have noticed a few fellow Brits have been having trouble finding unbleached plain flour…..
The Bleaching of flour in the UK was banned in 1997 so all flour produced in the UK is unbleached…..
Thank you Zoe and Jeff for your amazing book …..Look forward to the next
Andy 😉
Andy: Exactly. Our UK Random House editors were confident that a close equivalent in the UK is labeled “Plain” or “Plain White” flour, and it comes unbleached by law. Given the results of several of the bloggers out there, our editors were right on target. See an example at https://ukzoe.blogspot.com/2011/03/fun-with-bread.html I know she used Plain.
If you use “Strong” white flour, it’ll behave like US “Bread,” or “High-Protein” flour, so check out our post under the “FAQs” tab on that (“Flour Varieties…”) for liquid adjustments with that. Jeff
Thanks Jeff……Just waiting for my copy from amazon…..Although a friend in the states had given me master recipe and a few others…….will be good to have them all in metric………did buy some cup measures last time in the states……..but still prefer to weigh….lol
Ps…. will HBin5M be released in UK with weights ?
Funny you should ask, Ebury/Random House just gave us the heads-up that we need to start working on that. Yes, it will be released with weights for ingredient measures. Jeff
Brilliant!!! look forward to it
I’d like to make some barley bread. Do you have a recipe to fit the 5min format?
Hi Peter,
We actually have an Apple Barley Bread on page 196 of HBin5!
Enjoy, Zoë
Dear Jeff/Zoe,
I just received my Cloche Pan from King Arthur Flour and my long covered baker. When making the recipes in your cook book could you tell me how much of the dough I should use or anything I need to know when using these items. They told me to start out with a cold pan and let the bread rise in it and then put it in a cold oven and set to the temperature it calls for. I have both of your cookbooks and pre ordered your new cookbook. Thank you kindly for your help.
Dee
Dee: I posted on this at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2009/03/31/baking-bread-in-a-closed-clay-pot-cloche-the-best-crust-yet
I pre-heat the cloche first. The amount of dough entirely depends on the size of the cloche, but you don’t need to fill that space, can make a small one and it works nicely. Jeff
I made a batch of dough using the weight measures in the book and it was so wet as to be unhandleable. The ww flour I purchased in bulk at my local coop weighs 145 g per cup. So by using your given weights, I appear to have far less volume of flour in relation to the water. Ideas?
Hi Sharon,
Whole wheat flour that you get in bulk is often a much courser grind than commercial brands. This usually means that the flour doesn’t absorb as much water and therefore results in a wet dough. Which book are you working from?
Thanks, Zoë
Our family have been making your boule dough since your book first came out and love it. In New Zealand I like to make individual loaves in small bread pans. I make a few and leave them covered in the fridge. When I want one I simply take it out, preferably leave it for 20 minutes or so on the bench, preheat the oven for 5 minutes heading towards 350 and then pop it in for about 25 minutes depending how much dough I put in. I fill the pans about half full and often by the time I take them from the fridge they’ve risen to the top. As soon as I pop them in the oven they almost instantly double in size to produce a delightfully soft bread, almost like a soft roll – a completely different texture to a normal boule. My question is why can’t I make these when I visit all my children in the USA. They all make your boule dough but when I try to make these little gems there they hardly rise at all and end up quite tasty but tough – more like a regular boule texture. NZ all purpose flour is about 11% and the mix I make here or in the US looks about the same. Any ideas?
Hi True,
This is absolutely fascinating! The flour you find in most US grocery stores is closer to 9+% protein, which may make the dough less able to hold up to your method? Next time you try it, you may want to use bread flour, which is higher in protein.
Thanks, Zoë
Working from HB in 5. My coop has both medium and fine ground. I tried the fine first, and although I could work it, the bread was very flat. So I thought I’d try the medium, and that one was NG. Back to fine, I made a batch today based on volume not weight. Plan to bake tomorrow and will let you know how it went.
Hi Sharon,
We have found that many people who use the bulk flour from the co-op tend to need more vital wheat gluten in their dough. If this batch doesn’t work better for you, try adding another few tablespoons to the dough. You may also need to add a couple more tablespoons water as well.
Thanks, Zoë
Hi,
I received your Artisan Bread in 5 min as a Christmas present. Best present I’ve ever received. I’ve been making bread ever since and it’s so easy. My question is have you tried making your Master Recipe: Boule with only White Rice Flour? I have a friend that can’t eat any other type of flour except Rice Flour. Thanks
Hi Diane,
No, it won’t work at all, but we have an entire chapter of g-f recipes in our second book Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day. Here is a recipe to check out from that chapter: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2010/10/25/gluten-free-crusty-boule-the-video
Thanks and enjoy the bread, Zoë
This batch worked well – easier to handle, so I didn’t need to over handle it. I think I’ll stick with the volume measures from now on.
Thanks Sharon,
Interesting to know!
Enjoy the bread, Zoë
Dear Jeff/Zoe,
Thanks to ya’ll we have not bought store bread in 7 months. This week-end I demonstrated how to make Artisan Bread to our company and sent them home with a loaf of bread. She is now a believer and is going to get your book and start making bread when she gets home. The joy in making the bread not only comes from making it but in sharing it with others and seeing the delight they take in getting it and enjoying it. Thank you many times over for your books and advice when I have questions in making the bread.
Dee
Hi Dee,
What a great story, thank you for baking the bread and spreading the word.
Cheers, Zoë
I tried the 10 Grain Bread recipe using bulk 12 grain cereal from my local natural foods co-op. The bread turned out pretty good, but the dough seems too dry. Is there any way to add water to a batch that’s in the refrigerator already?
Mary: I’ve done, try floating some water on the top overnight; some will absorb into the dough– can poke some holes deeply into the surface with chopstick. Try not to manipulate or it’ll be dense. Jeff
When I was making my dough from the ABin5, I lost track of the amount of flour I added. I may be 1/2 cup short of flour (12-1/2 cups instead of 13- 1/2 cups). Is there a way I can tell when I form my loaf whether I’m short? I’ve made the basic recipe many, many times, so am familiar with the feel. If I think I’m short can I add the 1/2 cup before I break off the first grapefruit piece? Thanks for your help.
Hi Beth,
When you break off a piece and work with it, you will know if it feels too wet. If so, you can add more flour and then just let it sit for a while to allow the flour to absorb the excess water. In a batch of that size, you may not even notice a difference. Just use quite a bit of flour when shaping the dough, to make sure it doesn’t stick to your hands.
Thanks, Zoë
Is an overly wet dough, recoverable?
JBB: Yep, just work in additional flour, allow to rest at room temp for a couple of hours and then back to the fridge. Jeff
What a great book, I bought AB in 5m from Amazon for my Kindle. We live in Central America, specificaly Panama, so much easier than mailing the book.
One question tho, we do NOT have unbleached flour here. I had to add more flour, or less water my first attempt.. second was GREAT.. but my loaves never get nice and brown. I have read on the site that is because of the bleached flour I am using, but is there something I can do to make the bread browner, at least on top?
Thanks again for your great cookbook, we are opening a small hotel and restaurant and guess what the bread will be 🙂
Rebecca: Have you checked your oven temp with something like https://bit.ly/czmco2 ? That’s the more likely culprit. How about steam, there are alternatives if your oven isn’t trapping steam well, see our posts on this at:
Baking in a Dutch Oven: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552 or outdoors https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=627
Aluminum Roasting Pan for Crust: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=510
Cloche baking: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=566
Or you can just use a food-grade water sprayer to spray the loaf 3 times in the first two minutes of baking… Jeff
I love your recipes and use them a lot. I’m trying to perfect pain d’epi and it’s not going well…
The initial rise goes just fine, but when I get the dough out to shape into a baguette to let it rise, it spreads out, not up. This becomes a problem when I’m trying to make the pretty little wheat stalks that have looked more like blobby cubes lately. Any suggestions on how to get the loaf to firm UP before I make the wheat?
In reading through the helpful FAQ, I’ve determine that I should probably let it rise longer and try to shorten the time I’m manipulating the bread into the baguette shape, but any other suggestions for this particular recipe?
Hi Erin,
Have you read this post: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2008/02/22/how-to-form-the-pan-depi-wheat-stalk-bread
Let us know if this helps? Zoe
Thanks so much, Zoe. I hadn’t seen that post and it’s very helpful. I know what I was doing wrong and will adjust!
I am having problems with the loaves I’ve made coming out too wet and dense. This second batch is currently on it’s first rise I weighed the flour rather than scoop/sweep and yes it is unbleached. I also just read online (thefreshloaf.com) that Con Agra mills all-purpose flour that I buy at Costco is only 9.2% protein, so I am suspecting the flour may be the problem. What do you think? Do you get a better texture/more traditional bread if you use bread flour and alter the water content to match? I tried both the wheat from hbin5 and crusty white from abin5. Retrying the crusty white with measured – not scooped flour. Wondering if I should switch flour or mix some bread flour with the lower protein a.p. ?
OOOOPS! I am soooo wrong! I just realized the darn flour is BLEACHED!!! Ack! even more frustrating restaurant depot carries nothing but bleached flour, when asked why they said “unbleached doesn’t sell, people want a white flour” Only place I can find that sells flour in bulk UNbleached is Sam’s! Off to Sam’s I go!
Katie: That’s probably the problem. Also check your oven temp with something like https://bit.ly/czmco2 .
And be sure to let the bread cool before eating it or it will seem wet. Jeff
Jeff, thanks for the reply. I buy 25 pounds of flour at a time dump it in a rolling bin (throw out the bag) and bake cakes like crazy, I did not realize until I went back to the store and looked at the bag I usually buy that it is in fact bleached. I bought some unbleached flour and the recipes are working beautifully! I made the master recipe crusty bread and the brioche. I can’t wait to have some older dough to save and add in like sourdough. When I worked in one of the country clubs as pastry chef I started a sourdough program -old school style all the feeding of the sourdough, we add some to our baguettes and they were sooo good. Looking forward to seeing if I can replicate that with a much easier approach. Thanks so much for being so great about responding. I am looking forward to baking lots of fresh bread this Christmas!
Perfect– glad to hear!
I’ve made several batches of the white boule artisan dough, the whole grain artisan dough, and the classic pizza dough. The results are delightful, but only if I add more water than what is prescribed in each recipe; otherwise, the dough has hard lumps in it and is too dry.
I am wondering if the problem is the flours I use. Canadian all-purpose flour would seem to have a higher protein content than US all-purpose flour, somewhere around 13-14 percent according to my quick research–more like US bread flour. Also, I finely grind my own WW flour from hard wheat berries. From what I can glean from your blog on using fresh-ground WW flour, my home-ground flour is probably absorbing more water than store-bought WW flour.
Do you have any generalized advice on adapting your recipes for use in Canada because of the difference in each country’s all-purpose flour?
Christine: You’re right, assume Canadian AP is like US bread flour, and adjust per this web page: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2008/02/10/qa-flour-and-water
And fresh-ground flour is inconsistent in terms of moisture content, so that’s another wildcard. Another post, on that issue is at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1165 Jeff
Ugh! You have me totally addicted to making something yummy each day, pizza, flat bread, loaf bread, artisan loaf, rolls, skillet pies…
The question: I got AP&FBin5 for an early Christmas present. (Whining works.) The GF recipes (pgs 96 and 258) call for both white and brown rice flours. I usually use only brown rice flour (for the recipes from HBin5)and was wondering if I can use all brown flour for the AP&FBin5 recipes, and whether I need to adjust the liquid. The sweet dough on pg. 258 calls for 1 cup each of white and brown rice flours (with 4 of tapioca), the dough on 96 calls for 2 cups of each, so I am thinking it could make a bigger difference in the latter recipe if I used all brown rice flour. Thanks in advance for your reply. I am fortunate to live in an area with LOTS of different bulk flours available, as well as lots of Bob’s Red Mill and King Arthur choices, so getting white rice flour not the issue. Just wondering if I can sub the extra brown.
Hi Beth,
It will change the consistency of your dough slightly, but I think you can do it and make a great pizza. I find that the brown rice flour absorbs a little more water, so you may need to add a couple more tablespoons of water to your dough. I suggest you make a half batch and make sure you are in love with it.
Thanks, Zoë
I made some dough with just brown rice flour and no white rice flour and really liked it. Used a bit more water, not quite the couple of tablespoons you suggested. I made the plain, not the sweetened gf dough. Made very good tasting crackers and flatbread (with cheddar and thin sliced onions – was yummy.)
And thank you for the prompt reply!
Beth: Oat flour mixes in like whole wheat, more or less, when mixed with white flour. You can try about a cup, cup-and-a-half of it with white flour in basic white recipes (there’s one in our first book, the one you have).
Don’t overdo it with oat flour though– it doesn’t have any gluten and will be much too dense if you use a lot. Jeff
Somehow I managed to buy a lot of oat flour, which we use in pancakes and a few other things. I cannot find oat flour used in HB or P&F in 5. Do you have any suggestions about substituting it for other flours? How might I adjust water/liquids. Thanks much.
You are missing an “is” in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the first answer on this page. It should be: “You don’t need all that extra water if white flour IS only part of the loaf’s flour mixture.”
Thanks so much for the cool information! I look forward to picking up your newest book (once I get the density of my crumb down)!
I have made two batches using the Master Recipe p 53-59. My problem is excess moisture. With both batches,when I have taken the dough out of the refrig. to cut of the amount to bake there is liquid puddling in the bottom of the bowl. The dough is wet enough that I have to add flour to the outside of the piece I cut off in order to be able to handle it. Definitely way too wet. I’m using King Arther unbleached all purpose flour and following the measurements in the recipe. Since the instructions say not to punch the dough down I have not mixed in more flour. The bread as baked ok–a little heavy, but good flavor. Thanks in advance for your help.
Susan
Susan: this sometimes happens when the dough sits for days in a row w/o being used. Other explanation– bleached flour for the white portion in this recipe? Doesn’t absorb water as well. And most important, are you using vital wheat gluten? That absorbs a lot of water.
If no explanation, just decrease the water a bit. 1/4-cup?
Hello,
I just got you book Artisan Bread in 5 and was very excited to try it out. I followed the master recipes exactly but the dough was really thick and I had a problem with the dough rising. After two hours the dough was not risen hardly at all. I used organic white flour from my co-op. Could that have been the problem? The dough is also pretty brown which I do not understand since I used white flour.
Hi Megan,
If you bought the flour in bulk it is hard to know exactly what the source is. It may be a local flour that is milled a little courser than commercial flours, which will behave very differently in our recipes. Or it could be a higher protein flour that will result in a dry dough. Does the dough seem too wet or drier than what we use in our videos? https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2010/03/08/new-video-shaping-the-ball-from-a-very-wet-dough
Did you use cool water when you mixed the dough? This may be one reason it didn’t rise very much in two hours. The cooler the water, the longer the rise will take.
Thanks, Zoë
I have two bags of white whole wheat and was wondering if that would substitute well for the unbleached white or if I would have to change the amount/water, etc. I have been making your original master recipe.
Lydia: a discussion of WWW is in our second book, Healthy Bread in 5 Min/Day https://bit.ly/3wYSSN in Chapter 2.