How’d That Fresh-Ground Whole Wheat Store? Report at 15 Days

15-day-loaf

Back on November 11, I posted about my experiences with fresh-ground whole wheat, and I promised I’d come back and let you know how the dough stored.  Short answer:  pretty well.  I baked off some of the dough on day 10 of the batch-life, and it did beautifully.  Here, pictured above, is the same batch on day 15, which is a day longer than we usually recommend.  I had a feeling that it was going to be OK when I took the jar out of the fridge (remember, don’t screw the top down if you store dough in jars– gas is still being produced and this could cause a hazard).  You can still see some decent hole structure:

in-jar

So, I’m liking this fresh-ground wheat.  Very curious as to all your experiences with it.

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82 thoughts on “How’d That Fresh-Ground Whole Wheat Store? Report at 15 Days

  1. I am a newbie to your bread making method, but have been baking bread with a bread machine for some time with freshly ground whole grains. I tried the 100% whole wheat recipe with fresh ground hard red wheat, and the dough was drier than the one I made with conventional store bought 100% whole wheat, and didn’t rise that much. I made a second batch and added about an extra cup of water – got a better rise with it, but it may have been a bit too wet. I’ll keep working on the balance…

    • DC: Yeah, with fresh-ground, there’s going to be variability in how it turned out when we tested our book with commercial WW flour. One way to tell if it’s going to be easy to use a flour is to weigh a cup and see how it compares with commercial, which weighs 4 1/2 ounces (130 grams). If it’s off from that, it’s likely to requres adjustment. Just going by weight doesn’t neccesarily solve problem because the grind changes how it absorbs water.

      Keep experimenting and let us know what you find. Jeff

  2. First of all, kudos on the new book. I preordered so I’d get it immediately on release and I’ve been thrilled to work with it. So far, I’ve made two different bread doughs, with differing results that I though would be worth sharing. I made the basic whole wheat bread in the book and measured the ingredients by weight instead of volume (I’d never done this before.) I also mixed it by hand right in my dough bucket (I also had never done this before–I usually use my KitchenAid.) The first loaf rose beautifully and looked picture perfect. Had great crumb and crust. The second and third loaves, however, spread sideways rather than upward and I wound up with two foccaccia-like flatbreads that were nevertheless very tasty and very crusty. I used the dough over a period of about 10 days. It did seem very wet to me, so that might have been the problem,but the first loaf was fine.

    I then mixed a batch of the Bavarian Pumpernickel. This time I measured the ingredients by volume, as I had always done, and mixed them together in my KA before dumping into the dough bucket. I’ve made one loaf so far and it couldn’t have come out any better. Totally delicious, crusty boule with a great crumb. The dough for this batch was decidedly stiffer than the first batch of the ww. I will bake another batch tonight to see if I have the same results.

    So, if you have any thoughts as to why the first batch turned out so variable, I’d love to have the feedback.

    Again, thanks for your wonderful contribution to the art and science of bread baking!

    • Sandy: Hmm, not sure what the problem was. I always do my basic WW by weight and don’t have this problem. In our stuff, there’s a gradual tendency to go sideways as the dough ages, but not so quickly! Sounds like you just need to decrease the water a little in the sideways-spreading recipe. We don’t always figure out why you’re getting a slightly different result, but flours are different, and measuring techniques are different. Just down the water a little. 1/8 to 1/4 cup?

      Thanks for the kind words. Jeff

  3. I do buy some white bread flour and pastry flour, but we actually grind all of our wheat for everything else. It does an amazing job! We have been so pleased with the flavor and texture. It allows us to eat more healthfully without sacrificing any flavor.

  4. The Blendtec Kitchen Mill has a knob for controlling the coarseness of the flour. How would this affect the final loaf of bread? Would you recommend a more coarse setting or a more fine setting?

    Also, sorry for asking this twice: some of the recipes in HBin5 call for wheat germ flour; if I can’t find wheat germ flour, what adaptations would I have to make to account for leaving it out? Can it be replaced with all-purpose flour? How would this affect the bread?

    Thanks for all of your great answers to previous questions, both from myself and from others.

    • Andrew: Start with the medium setting and go from there. If you have a scale, use it. You’ll get results most similar to ours if your finished product has a weight of about 4 1/2 ounces per cup (measured by scoop-and-sweep). That’s 130 grams if you’re decimal. If you don’t have a scale, just start experimenting. Too wet? less water (or more flour). Too dry? The opposite response.

      “Wheat germ” and “wheat germ flour” are the same thing… Jeff

  5. I too grind all my own wheat. So far I’ve only used hard red wheat but I do want to try it with some of my hard white wheat. All of my loaves taste great but I’ve also had different results with the shape. Some of mine have spread out, others I’ve added more flour during the shaping process and the loaf holds its shape a little better. Is having the dough “too wet”: causing the loaves to lose their shape? Is it a flaw in shaping technique? Practice, Practice I guess.
    I’m loving the fact that I’ve finally found the dense/moist/whole wheat loaf I’ve been looking for. Thank you bunches and bunches!!

    • Jamie: Yes, too-wet means you’ll get spreading, and if you’re using a fresh-ground flour this takes some experimentation (see my response to Andrew just above). There’s a chance that it’s technique, but if you’re doing it the way we do it in our videos (http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63) that’s probably not the explanation.

      Thanks for the kind words…. Jeff

  6. Hi! I am fascinated by the idea of storing the dough in jars. What size should I use? If I have a full batch, should I put it in three or four different jars?

    • Deb: Remember not to screw down the lids. I bet it will take four jars per batch if they’re about the size I used (1 quart). If you do your initial rise in there, you need room for it to double. If you rise it in a pot or bucket and then transfer it, you can fill it 2/3 or maybe even 3/4. If you guess wrong, might make a mess.

      Did I remember to say don’t screw down the lid? Jeff

  7. Jeff, thanks for the advice. I don’t have a scale yet (but at least I feel bad about it). I’ve followed your recipes often enough with store-bought flour to have an intuition for what it should look like, so at least I have a starting point for experimentation. I just mixed together a batch of dough from whole white wheat with the mill set to medium coarseness. This will be my first time with whole white wheat as well as my first time with fresh-milled flour. I’m excited to try the bread tomorrow and to keep on experimenting.

    I know that “wheat germ” and “wheat germ flour” are the same–my question is how different is it from all purpose flour?

    As of today, there are at least three people that have tried out ABi5 based on my recommendation. Isn’t word of mouth great? :) Congratulations on writing books that are so easy to get people excited about.

  8. Now that I have a Kitchen Mill, I’ve learned that it can grind most grains and legumes (pretty much anything that isn’t wet or oily like nuts). I’ve been wanting to try the Lentil Curry Bread (from HBin5), but it occurred to me that it might be easier to grind the dry lentils and add them directly to the dough instead of precooking and blending them. Do you forsee any disasters, or is it worth an experiment?

    • Andrew: Sorry I misunderstood. Wheat germ is the part of wheat that contains the soon-to-be wheat plant when the seed (wheat kernel) is planted. It’s full of fat-soluble vitamins, and healthy oils to nourish the plant. It’s much, much heavier than all-purpose (AP) flour, which is the refined starchy white portion of the wheat kernel. Swap whole wheat flour for wheat germ and you should be good. Not AP.

      About grinding the lentils… if you’ve been grinding legumes without destroying your mill, I can’t see why it wouldn’t work (maybe you should check with the mill manufacturer though). But I can’t promise it will hydrate properly. I guess if you’ve done this with other legumes, and baked them into bread, it should work. Wouldn’t be that expensive an experiment if it fails, I suppose.

      Thanks— we’re pretty excited too. Jeff

  9. Thanks, Jeff. I’ll try swapping in whole wheat flour for now, and I’ll keep an eye out for wheat germ in the future.

    The manual for the Kitchen Mill has a list of approved/unapproved items on the back of the manual. Lentils are specifically mentioned on the list (the only legumes not allowed are peanuts). This will be my first experiment with baking any legume directly into bread, so I have no idea whether it will hydrate properly. I guess the only way to find out is to try. I’ll let you know how it goes.

  10. I am just loving your new book! I just finished off a batch of the whole wheat rye–it’s delicious!

    Yesterday I was looking to use up a few eggs & a few black bananas, so I took the Pumpkin Pie Brioche recipe & turned it into Maple Banana Brioche. I just removed the spices, used maple syrup instead of honey, and used banana puree instead of pumpkin. Because banana puree is a lot wetter than pumpkin puree I drained it in a fine sieve for a couple hours, and used the drained liquid for some of the water. The dough came together beautifully.

    This morning I rolled out a peach-sized portion, sprinkled it with a few chocolate chips and toasted pecan pieces, rolled it up, and baked it into a little cupcake. It’s delicious! I think it is quite possibly the best thing I have ever put nutella on (and that’s saying something, as I will put nutella on pretty much anything!). I can’t wait to try a nutella swirl loaf & cinnamon rolls! Yum!

    • Hi Marie,

      That sounds wonderful! There is also a banana bread in the book on page 200. It may be a little bit heartier than the brioche version.

      Thanks for the great idea! Zoë

  11. Jeff,

    You mention to Andrew that “wheat germ” and “wheat germ flour” are the same thing. I’ve never heard of “wheat germ flour” and any of the “wheat germ” I’ve seen looks like little granules. Did you mean to tell him that “vital wheat gluten” and “wheat gluten flour” were the things that were the same?

    That might be why he can’t find “wheat germ flour”.

  12. Even my health food store is confused about WHITE whole wheat flour and brought in unbleached white wheat flour for me! Even their Bob’s Red Mill catalogue does not list it. Man, it’s frustrating!!!

  13. I have that when rising my dough for the first time, it does not rise as much as the regular master recipe. I am using the same containers, and the dough with the fresh ground whole wheat is about three inches shorter. I do not have store bought whole wheat, so I am not sure if that’s the difference. I also go by weights, so that should not be the difference. I found with the first batch I made, the dough was wetter and the bread spread out more. This batch is now cooling, so not sure how it will react. I am using prarie gold white wheat berries and grinding them as fine as I can in with my Vita-Mix.

  14. Can the dough be frozen? With only two of us, a batch is more than we can eat in the time allowed. Also, I find the recipes a bit flat in taste unless I add some sweetener such as honey. Please respond, especially about freezing the dough.

    • Lucy: Yep, dough can be frozen for up to two weeks. Honey’s a great touch, in our book we have honey variations so check that out. You can also boost the salt a bit, up to 1 1 /2 T if you don’t have health restrictions on your salt intake.

      And “raw” or “fresh” cake yeast is just fine, you need to double the quantity though. Or use less yeast, check out http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=85 Jeff

  15. Another question: I normally bake with raw yeast from the organic store. Will that work with your recipes? I have been baking bread for over sixty years and always used raw yeast.

  16. Hi Jeff! Hi Zoe!

    I just ordered your Artisan bread book and can’t wait to try it out. I subscribe to Mother Earth news and tries your 10-grain bread recipe for the first time last week. I’m not sure what I did wrong, but it did not rise the second time after taking it out of the fridge. I rose the first time, although not a great deal, before I put it in the fridge. I tried another loaf last night and same thing. Can you tell me what might be the problem? I think the yeast was within its expiration and not sure about the wheat gluten (I just opened a new package for this recipe). I’m not a stranger to bread making, so am stumped for what I did/didn’t do. Any insight would be much appreciated!

    • Chrystal: When you baked off the one that “didn’t rise” after taking out of fridge, how did it look when cut open? Our stuff depends more on oven spring than what you’re used to. I’m guessing it was OK inside? Jeff

  17. My husband has a salt restriction due to a recent kidney stone. I use organic sea salt and that seems to be okay. Thanks for the information on freezing the dough. Now I can mix up several different kinds of bread dough and store some in the freezer.

    I didn’t find a bread recipe for my favorite breakfast bread so I used one of yours and adjusted it. Using your Master recipe: I added 3 tablespoons honey to the water, then soaked one cup of diced, dried apricots in the liquid while measuring the dry ingredients into a bowl. To the dry ingredients, add 1 tablespoon cardamom, then mix and store per directions. When you are ready to bake a loaf, shape it into a ball, flatten slightly, and let it rest. Follow the rest of the directions, bake, eat and enjoy. This bread is especially good toasted for breakfast. Add a bit of cream cheese or butter after toasting. Round bread does not slice well for a toaster so I do mine in the toaster oven, toasting several slices, flipping over, and browing the other side.

    • Hi Lucy,

      Thanks for the lovely note and wonderful recipe idea. It sounds a little bit like our Stollen recipe, but the shape is a great idea!

      Enjoy, Zoë

  18. Question about Panettone. The flour I’m using is a mix from Costco that’s got some white wwflour in it. What do you think about adding Vital Wheat Glutin like w/ HB5 breads?

    I know, I know give it a try. But before I invest in ingrediants I thought I’d ask.
    …….written as I’m candying orange peel

    • Helen: I know that flour well, it sounds like a nice product, but we never know how to tell people to use it because we don’t know the proportion of white to WWW. My guess is that it will likely need half the VWG dose that we use in HBin5.

      Love that candied orange peel! Jeff

  19. When you store the dough in the refrigerator is the lid suppose to be tight or open a little like it was when it rose on the counter?
    Just made my first loaf of the master recipe and it is very good.
    Thanks

    • Hi Bev,

      I close the lid, but do not snap it shut for the first 48 hours. After that I usually shut it all the way. If you detect any alcohol build up in the bucket, leave the lid unsnapped.

      Enjoy, Zoë

  20. Thanks for the feedback, Jeff. I will try measuring by weight again with my next batch. But I have to tell you that I’ve baked all four loaves from the Bavarian Pumpernickel batch that I mixed by volume and they all rose beautifully. Perfect-looking loaves and taste is great. The dough was MUCH stiffer than the basic whole wheat loaf, btw, and I think I’ll judge the next batch by that texture.

    Another thing I want to thank you and Zoe for in the new book is the suggestion to use parchment paper on the peel instead of cornmeal when you rest your loaf. This has worked fantastically for me. I use the King Arthur parchment sheets which are thick and slick. By doing this, I no longer have a cornmeal mess in my oven or on my counter when I cool the loaves on a rack. Plus, it is very, very easy to pull the parchment out from under the baking breads at the 2/3 point in the baking. Just grab by and corner and pull. Finally, using this method I was able to bake two loaves at a time with no difficulty. Excellent! I highly recommend this.

  21. Oh, one last thing. The Bavarian Pumpernickel recipe calls for rising the loaf in a brotform. I don’t have one, so I just rested it on the peel with parchment paper as a boule. I dusted the top with all-purpose flour, and then slashed before baking. The finished loaves look lovely, with nice bands of white flour across the top to create visual interest.

  22. I think I’ll call the company on Monday and ask about proportions of APflour & WWflour in the Ultragrain All-Purpose flour that Costco sells. And report back.

    Meanwhile, I’ll proceed w/ your suggestion of using 1/2 VWG until I get better data. Thanks. (it’s a nice flour!)

  23. Jeff, I made lentil curry bread with fresh ground “lentil flour” and fresh whole white wheat flour, and it worked perfectly. The lentils didn’t have any problem with hydration. Anyway, it was a fun experiment.

  24. Zoe, Thank you for the nice comment on my apricot cardamom bread, I also add about 1/2 cup finely chopped walnuts if I’m not giving it to someone who is allergic to nuts. Otherwise, I just bake, eat, and share. Since we also enjoy cranberry, orange bread, I’ve used the same recipe (with honey, etc) and added about 1/2 cup sweet dried cranberries and 1 teaspoon dried orange peel for each loaf. Sometimes I shape it in a round, other times I bake it in a bowl lined with parchment paper. Lovely bread.

  25. Hi, this is not related to the whole wheat but has a little to do with storage! I made the master recipe exactly, but this time using Trader Joe’s brand AP flour. I notice that after baking the two batches (7 days and 10 days), they both were perfectly golden brown on the outside with a nice crispness but the inside was quite soft. It was almost like it was underdone. Toasting it for 2.5 minutes in the toaster oven (after slicing) didn’t really make a difference. I think the hydration may be too high for this particular flour. How should I adjust? More baking time? Less water?

    Thanks.

  26. Me again, back with some information that may help.

    (Quote) “We were surprised to notice that this flour is listed as having four grams of protein per 1/4 cup (about 13.3%), which actually puts it above King Arthur Flour in terms of protein content (which has a protein content of about 3g per 1/4 cup or 11.7%”

    • David: You can’t use the gram-numbers to calculate percentage protein because they only are required to post whole numbers on package information. That introduces lots of what statisticians call “rounding error.” The standard rounding convention is as follows:
      4.0 to 4.49 is listed as “4,” and
      4.50 to 4.99 is listed as “5”.

      So the percentage calculation would be way off. I know, because I made this mistake in early printings of our first book!

      If your dough’s too wet, this would go against high-protein flour as the culprit (which gives a drier result). I would just decrease the water a little, maybe a quarter cup. Let us know how you make out.

  27. My master batch of whole wheat bread is 8 days old and I would like to add a bit more salt to the dough. Is it possible to gently re-mix the dough. Thanks.

    • Diane: I’m guessing that this will knock gas out of the dough, so go gently with it or it will end up dense. Worth a try if you’re wanting the salt level in our first book. Note that we decreased salt 33% for the second, health-oriented book, and some people (who don’t need to be on salt-restricted diets) are wanting the salt back up. Jeff

  28. I’ve tried your whole wheat master recipe 3 times and I find that I get a dense loaf with litte “oven spring” I want to make “sandwich” bread in a loaf pan. The initial rise is tremendous, “boiling over” my contaoner, but when I shape the loaves, I get little second rise or spring. I do not refrigerate and want to make it right away. I’m going to try taking it right out of the mix and put the dough directly in my loaf pans, letting it rise and pop it in the oven after it’s first rise. What do you think?

    • Hi Dan,

      You may find that the dough is easier to handle and has better rise if you allow it to be refrigerated for a few hours, if not over night. When the dough is fresh it tends to spread more and may not give you all the lift you want.

      Are you using freshly ground wheat? You may need to use a touch more vital wheat gluten if your flour is particularly coarse.

      We have allowed the dough to rise in a baking pan and bake it right away with pretty good results. Give it a try and see if you prefer it.

      Thanks, Zoë

  29. Thanks, Zoe. Yes, It is fresh ground but I’ve got it pretty fine with my Country Living Grain Mill. I am not really interested in a free form or artisan loaf, just a bread pan type sandwich bread, I will give it a try both ways and I will let you know how it works for me.
    Thanks again!

  30. Hello – I found your book in the library after being recommended by financial blogger Mary Hunt (EveryDay Cheapskate).

    Like Dan (Dec 31), I’m interested in a light sandwich bread. I saw that you had something along those lines in ABin5, but I was curious if there is something comparable in HBin5?

    I just received a grain mill for Christmas, so I’m looking forward to making bread. I duly noted the advice about watching the wetness of the dough.

    I also appreciated the new method of using parchment paper, given that I’m allergic to corn and can’t use corn meal.

    I’m a little nervous about making bread, but your method seems fool-proof enough. Keep up the great work!

    • Bethany: By “light” whole wheat, we mean that there isn’t all that much whole wheat in the recipe. The idea of HBin5 was to put lots of whole grain into the recipes, so that’s the wrong place to look for a “light” whole wheat. You can use white whole wheat flour in place of traditional to get a lighter color and flavor– that goes for either of our books.

      Let us know how you make out, thanks for your interest… Jeff

  31. MY P0ROBLEM IS THAT WHEN I USE FRESH GROUND W/W FLOUR, AFTER A FEW DAYS IN THE REFRIGERATOR, THE DOUGH TURNS VERY, VERY DARK AND IT’S ALMOST SLIMY! I THOUGHT FRESH GROUND FLOUR WENT RANCID AFTER A FEW DAYS?!

    • Hi Steve,

      Does this generally happen if you have not been using the dough for a few days. I’m not sure this is directly related to the fresh ground wheat? A dark liquid may form on the top of your dough, but this is normal and not at all harmful. One way to prevent this from happening is to gently stir a light dusting of flour into the bucket, just a tiny bit of flour will feed the yeast and prevent it from turning slimy. This happens automatically when you are using the dough and sprinkling the surface of the dough with flour to get a piece of dough out of the bucket.

      I hope that is helpful? Thanks, Zoë

  32. it even happens to other recipes i make with fresh ground w/w and store the dough in the frige — like pancake batter! that’s why i thought it was the fresh ground. hmm, there’s no telling! i’ll try again and see what happens. thanks!

  33. I just made a loaf of WW It is flatter than the picture but the texture looks the same. However I don’t like the taste (just me I’m sure) what can I do with the dough for the other 3 loaves? I hate to throw it out but sure the chickens would eat it.
    thanks

    • Hi Rondatcher,

      You could try making it into a pizza dough, or one of the other flatbreads we have in the book. You could also add some herbs or garlic to the dough. If you decide to roll things into the dough just be sure to allow it to rest a bit longer before baking so that it has time to develop a nice interior crumb.

      What kind of flour were you using? If you are not on a salt restricted diet you may consider making your next loaf with a touch more salt, it really perks up the taste.

      Enjoy, Zoë

  34. thanks.
    I thought pizza, too. I used hard red winter wheat that I grind just before using. It looked like yours, had the right texture too. In the fridge it looks just like the picture. It is just my personal taste I think.
    I bake several loaves of WW bread every week and thought this would be easier than mixing kneading rising each time. thanks again

    • Hi Rondatchr,

      Are the other breads that you bake sweeter or have a lighter texture? Have you tried the whole wheat brioche dough? That may be closer to what you are looking for?

      Just a thought, thanks for trying the recipe! Zoë

  35. I have always used either 100% fresh ground white wheat, or spelt. Or a mixture of the two and I have always had great results, except when I tried the bagels with just spelt. :)

  36. I baked the HB5 recipie V today. The instructions call for an oven temp of 450 and baking time of 45 min. Both seem excessive together. Could it be an error in temp and or time? I took out the bread after 30 min at the 450 temp and it seems to be OK. Should the temp have been 350?

  37. Greetings~ I am loving these books and the technique has changed how I look at everything about cooking now. My question>> I actually developed a bread recipe a few years back that as far as the nutrition facts, rivals the best protein bars out there and the fiber content takes the carbs per serving down to 5 net. I would love to convert this into a “in 5″ recipe. How would I go about that? If you can help me with this I would be over the moon!

    • Hi Dawn,

      Without seeing the recipe it would be hard to say. You can start by making the dough wetter than normal and try storing it. If it has lots of whole grains you may also need to add vital wheat gluten to the mix, which means even more water. It may take some playing with, but it sounds like it will be well worth it.

      Good luck! Zoë

  38. Thanks Zoe!

    It def has vital wheat gluten in the recipe already. The recipe as it stands now cooks up light and airy. People are always shocked at the light texture and exceptional flavor despite it being whole grained and healthy.
    Do you suppose I should start by upping the VWG and the water and see what happens? Or just the water to start?
    Thanks so much for your input. *I have both books now and I can’t believe everyone in the world isn’t taking advantage of the bread in 5 movement!*

  39. I have had great luck with the WW bread. People just do not want to believe that I make it. I have purchased and gifts both books to at least 3 people in the last few months.

    Today I mixed up a batch of rye. Pumpernickle is next!

    I am not sure I can wait until 2011 for the 3rd book!

    • Dawn: I’d start with increasing just the water. At some point, there’s little value in further increase of VWG, it just gets rubbery. See http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142 for guidelines.

      Laura: Thanks so much! Stay tuned here, we’ll be discussing all sorts of stuff in the next year, some goes into the books, some not. Jeff

  40. Thanks Jeff!

    I am going to start playing with my recipe and see if I can make it happen.

    It took six months of trail and error to perfect the conventional recipe– so what’s another few months to turn it into in 5 recipe.

  41. I love the method, but my whole wheat dough does not come out stretchy like it should. It just pulls right off. Am I doing something wrong?

  42. Loved the first book — loving the second one just as much! I have a question about the mixing technique as described in the second book. I’ve searched your site and book, but couldn’t find the answer, so if I missed it, I apologize. In the first book, it states to mix the liquid with the salt and yeast and then add the flour. In the second book, you mix the yeast with flour and then add the water. Is this because of the difference in flour — white vs. whole grains?

    Thanks!

    • Hi Ann,

      This is entirely due to the addition of the vital wheat gluten. If you don’t mix it with the flour before adding water you may end up with dumplings in your dough.

      Hope that answers your question? Enjoy, Zoë

  43. For the Cracked Wheat Bread, pg. 109, the intro said white whole wheat and traditional whole wheat are used; however, the recipe calls for unbleached all-purpose flour instead of traditional whole wheat. Which should it be?

    • Kina: Intro isn’t consistent– we dropped the traditional whole wheat for the final recipe, but left the intro as it was by accident. You can use a blend if you’d like to try it; white whole wheat and traditional measure out the same. The final effect is a little different, and we slightly preferred the all-WWW version. Jeff

  44. I absolutely love both of your books which I have only had for a few weeks. I have made the basic recipe from the ABi5 and the Banana Bread from HBi5 and both were delicious. I was wondering if you could come up with some ways to adapt your recipes to mimic bread I get in Maine every summer from a place called When Pigs Fly. What I am interested in are their sweet breads such as orange cranberry and blueberry lemonade, etc (they do have other flavors too). They are absolutely wonderful toasted. They have a sweet crunchy topping but are not cakey – they are wonderfully chewy breads but with just the right amount of sweetness for breakfast.

    • Gail: Both books have breads just like what you are describing. Check out Chapter 8 from the first book, and Chapter 10 from the second book, and you’ll see what I mean. Bake a few of the enriched recipes, especially the ones with fruit. Consider fruit juices, as we use in the 2nd book– the recipe for Brown Rice and Prune Bread has 3 cups of fruit juice, and in the VARIATION at the end of that recipe, we talk about using pomegranate and other tart juices. See what you think… Jeff

  45. I’ve been baking with freshly ground whole wheat for four years, and I love it. I’m just now investigating your bread technique, and I’m going to probably try it out first with my lovely freshly ground flour.

  46. Thanks for the quick reply Jeff. I will definitely look at those recipes. My question was probably not in an appropriate discussion area – I’m trying to familiarize myself with your blog and blogs in general.

  47. My dough has a very strong smell and tast of alcohol. I am guessing a possibility of problems
    – I grind my prairie gold winter white and use it within minutes of grinding so could it be too hot with my luke warm water?
    – I triple my recipe and realized I have been using 6 TBSP of yeast per 22 1/2 cups of flour with 9 1/2 cups water..oops
    -what else could be causing this? this is my third batch that has this alcohol smell???? First I used hard red spring to grind, then spelt, then winter white. Every time I use 100% still warm fresh groud flour?

    Help!?

    Many, many thanks

    I love Bread!

    • Slater: Using a lot of yeast can cause off-smells– see our post on lowering the yeast dose at http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=85.

      It’s not the wheat, or the fact that it’s home-ground. Are you venting the container? Leave it open a crack for the first 48 hours, or people have complained of that smell.

      Are you noticing the smell only in longer-aged dough? You may prefer to make less so you don’t store so long. And finally, does the finished product (baked bread) continue to smell of alcohol? If not, this is not a problem. Alcohol is the normal by-product of yeast fermentation and baking usually drives off all of it (by boiling it away). Jeff

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