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Whole Grain Master Recipe from “Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day” using Vital Wheat Gluten!
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by Jeff, October 26, 2009
Filed Under HBin5, Recipes | 235 Comments
(The picture above is another Mark Luinenburg gem; Mark’s done the photography on our new book). Speaking of our new book…
… this has been a long and wonderful road; tomorrow (Tuesday October 27) is the publication date for:
Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day: 100 New Recipes Featuring Whole Grains, Fruits, Vegetables, and Gluten-Free Ingredients
We are thrilled with the early reviews, and already have already been on TV to talk about the book. On Amazon, the order window has changed from “Pre-Order” to “Order on Amazon”, and bookstores should have it (if they don’t please ask them to order it). It’s a book we wrote because people posted to us in this website and asked us for it (as in, “can you do something similar with more whole grains?”).
The answer: Yes, you can, but you have to make some changes. We’ll be talking more about this on our book tour, which starts tomorrow, and teaching classes about the changes you need to make to succeed with stored whole grain doughs (check our Events tab for details on cities, bookstores, and cooking schools). If you can’t wait, I’m walking through our whole grain Master Recipe here in this post today. I’ll cut to the chase: you need more water, and one extra ingredient called Vital Wheat Gluten (sometimes labeled “vital wheat gluten flour”), which is available in most supermarkets, or mail-order/on-line from anywhere…Whole grains can make for a drier results; all that bran soaks up water. So we increased the water for all the new recipes. But that was only part of it. If you want to be able to store whole grain dough, you need to boost the gluten content or the loaves tend to become dense over the life of the batch. Storing the dough is why our recipes are different (that’s what makes our method different). Vital wheat gluten makes whole grain dough springy enough to be stored in the refrigerator as a large batch. We found we weren’t crazy about the result until we started testing our approach with vital wheat gluten.
What is vital wheat gluten? It’s the protein-rich part of wheat that creates the strands that trap gas bubbles and allow yeasted bread to rise (and stay risen). It doesn’t take much vital wheat gluten to make a difference in a 4 to 5 pound batch of whole grain dough. Just 2 to 4 tablespoons are all you need, so while the whole bag or box may seem expensive, it doesn’t add much to the cost of baking (yeast is a more important expense, which is why we recommend that you buy it in bulk from a food co-op or from CostCo).
So where do you get vital wheat gluten? Most supermarkets in larger towns and cities carry it. The two brands in U.S. supermarkets are Bob’s Red Mill and Hodgson Mill, and we tested those extensively. If your local store doesn’t carry vital wheat gluten, you can mail-order it from Amazon; click for either the Bob’s Red Mill product, or the Hodgson Mill product (you can also order directly from those companys’ websites). Amazon carries other vital wheat gluten brands but we’ve never tried them.
The other on-line seller is King Arthur Flour – they have their own vital wheat gluten product as well, and have an enormous selection of bakeware and other accessories for bread-baking.
We are going to publish the basic whole grain recipe here on our website. Many, many more details are in the book, and we won’t be able to provide all that here on the web. The book also has plenty of recipes that are 100% whole grain; today’s recipe is about 73% whole grain:
Ingredients:
5 1/2 cups whole wheat flour
2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour
1 1/2 tablespoons granulated yeast (can decrease)
1 tablespoon Kosher salt (can adjust to taste or health concerns)
1/4 cup (4 tablespoons) vital wheat gluten (or vital wheat gluten flour)
4 cups lukewarm water (about 100 degrees F)
1 to 2 tablespoons of whole seed mixture for sprinkling on top crust: sesame, flaxseed, caraway, raw sunflower, poppy, and or anise
First, measure the dry ingredients into a 5-quart bucket or bowl, and whisk them together (you can also use a fork, or if it’s lidded, just shake them well). Mixing the dry ingredients first prevents the vital wheat gluten from forming clumps once liquids are added:
Now add the water to form a very wet dough. Don’t add additional flour to dry this out:
Cover loosely (leave lid open a crack) and allow to rise for two hours at room temperature (if you decreased the yeast, you’ll need more time). NEVER PUNCH DOWN or intentionally deflate. The dough will rise and then begin to collapse. Refrigerate and use over the next 14 days, tearing off one-pound loaves as you need them.
On baking day, cut off a grapefruit-sized piece of dough (about a pound), using a serrated knife or a kitchen shears:
Now, quickly shape a loaf as you’ve seen in our videos on this website, or on our new Amazon site (but note that the Amazon video leaves out the crucial 90 minute resting time that I’ll talk about in a minute). Should take less than a minute— still pictures don’t do it justice, but basically, you pull the top around to the bottom, rotating quarter-turns as you go. DON’T KNEAD or otherwise knock all the gas out of the loaf:
Cover the loaf loosely with plastic wrap and let it rest on a pizza peel covered with cornmeal or parchment for 90 minutes (40 minutes if you’re using fresh, unrefrigerated dough. This is longer than our 1st book because whole grains take a longer rest than white doughs. Depending on the age of the dough, you may not see much rise; our loaves depend more on “oven spring.”
Thirty minutes before baking, preheat the oven to 450 degrees F (230 degrees C), with a baking stone placed on a middle rack. Place an empty broiler tray for holding water on any other rack that won’t interfere with rising bread.
Just before baking, use a pastry brush to paint the top with water (we’ve dropped the cornstarch wash) and sprinkle with seed mixture. Slash the loaf with 1/4-inch deep parallel cuts across the top (or a singe lengthwise cut as in the first picture). Use a serrated bread knife held perpendicularly to the loaf:
Slide onto the hot stone…
…and carefully pour 1 cup of hot tap water into the broiler tray (in the book, we give alternatives for creating that steam environment, which is essential for creating a great crust):
After a 30-minute bake, cool on a cooling rack, and serve however you’d like. You have the basis for a complete, nutritious meal, bursting with healthy vegetable oils (from wheat germ), fiber (from wheat bran), and vitamins. We look forward to hearing more from you as people have questions about the book.
Zoe and I will be on Fox-9 News in Minneapolis-St. Paul tomorrow morning, at around 8:30am— Click here to view…
Follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/ArtisanBreadIn5
Comments
Michelle C. said...
October 26, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I can’t wait – have had my book on pre-order from the beginning! My copy of your first book is a “uncorrected proofs” version I found at our local used book store and falls open automatically to the European Peasant Bread.
jeff said...
October 26, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Michelle, LaJuana: Thanks for the kind words– come back anytime with questions. Jeff
Andrea said...
October 26, 2009 at 3:38 pm
I’m looking forward to attending your book talk and signing in Seattle, Nov. 2.
Verena said...
October 26, 2009 at 3:44 pm
I love the first book, and almost always have a tub of dough in the fridge ready to go…. In addition to loaves, I often make the flatbread, and I do a pizza crust every week. I just pre-ordered a copy of the new book, it will be great to have more options.
Tracy said...
October 26, 2009 at 5:38 pm
With a well worn copy of the first book at my side, I can hardly wait for my copy to arrive… I was beyond thrilled when I received the Amazon email that they shipped it today.
Conrad said...
October 26, 2009 at 7:06 pm
I have been waiting forever. Signed up at the start of the summer. I can’t wait to try it out. Thanks again. the bummer is that all of my friends and family that I bought the original book are going to expect me to buy the 2nd edition.
Marie said...
October 26, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Thanks for this! I’ve been waiting for this book for months! Ever since I discovered your method I’ve been playing around with different whole-grain combos in the master recipe, but when I heard about your new book I figured I’d just leave it up to the pros. Can’t wait for my copy to arrive!
zoe said...
October 26, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Hi Andrea,
I’m so excited to be in Seattle and will so look forward to seeing you there!
Thanks, Zoë
AmandaLP said...
October 26, 2009 at 8:29 pm
This is great! I can bake tomorrow while I wait for the book to arrive!
Did you test out the recipes using White Whole wheat as well? And/or, can it be used interchangeably with regular Whole Wheat? 
Thanks!
Magali said...
October 26, 2009 at 11:19 pm
I am soooooo excited!!!
This news has made my day (and early day thanks to my 2 yo pulling me out of bed at an insanely early time – I needed cheering up!)
I’m in the UK though so I’m not sure Amazon UK will have it ready to ship.
Leslie said...
October 27, 2009 at 6:13 am
I’ve asked Santa for your new book. I just tried making your semolina bread in a Big Green Egg – which acts like a brick oven – and it was fantastic. I substituted white whole wheat flour for the regular white flour, and while it was a bit denser it worked beautifully. I do add vital wheat gluten when I’m using whole grains, though.
Thanks again for your inspirational books!
Tracy said...
October 27, 2009 at 7:14 am
I’m so excited! I joined the HBin5 baking group too, and can’t wait to start baking my way through the new book!
teresa said...
October 27, 2009 at 7:20 am
where’s the HBin5 baking group??
Bubbles LaTour said...
October 27, 2009 at 8:03 am
Mazel Tov, Jeff and Zoë. I made half a batch of the dough on Sunday and baked it yesterday. We’re liking it a lot and look forward to many more loaves.
I’m sorry I can’t be at B&N tonight! 
There might have been some jam in it for you.
Yers,
Bubbles
Mira said...
October 27, 2009 at 8:10 am
Thank you so much for posting this. I love your first book and I just got a confirmation that my pre-ordered new book shipped today. I’m so excited and also joined the HBin5 group. The video on Amazon says 3 TBSP of vital wheat gluten but your post here says 4 TBSP or 1/4 cup. Just wondering… does it make a difference in the finished product?
clarice said...
October 27, 2009 at 8:28 am
I have pre-ordered mine and it is on the way to me, I can not wait !!!! Clarice
C. Beth said...
October 27, 2009 at 8:37 am
I’m so excited! Just started reading the book this morning. Love the idea of the seeds on top of the ww bread; I think that’s really going to add to the flavor. Thanks, guys!
Joan Vibert said...
October 27, 2009 at 8:40 am
Okay – I’m off to the store to get the wheat gluten – my book shipped yesterday but now I can make one batch of the wheat bread. I’m teaching the Artisan Bread in 5 tomorrow and will tease them with the new book. But they have to take the class to get any recipes out of me! Thanks for all your good work, it’s really appreciated.
TiV said...
October 27, 2009 at 10:03 am
Regards from Finland! Will receive your new book in a couple of days. A LONG wait is over!!!! Thank you already in advance!
Bonnie said...
October 27, 2009 at 10:13 am
I was just wondering, I saw you on fox 9 this morning, And I ordered the book, And I’m going to go out and buy a baking stone, But can you also Make actual bread loaves using a bread pan?
Sheri said...
October 27, 2009 at 10:21 am
Can I use the Le Crueset method for this one? My standard bread is the European Peasant bread baked in my little 1.5-qt. Le Crueset, and it’s always fantastic.
Can’t wait to see you both in SF!
jeff said...
October 27, 2009 at 11:39 am
Amanda: We find that white WW can be swapped for regular whole wheat (but not for AP). In some cases, we really prefer WWW, like for whole grain brioches and the like. Otherwise use what you like.
Magali: curious too when Amazon UK gets the book. We’ve had significant interest over there, thanks for being patient.
Leslie: When you see the book, you’ll see adjustments to make when trying to swap out WW for AP. The gluten helps, also need to wet it down some more.
Tracy/Terresa: Welcome to all the HBin5 baking group members! Learn more about it at http://www.bigblackdogs.net/2009/10/announcing-hbinfive-new-baking-group.html
Bubbles: I am going to MISS that jam! Darn it! My wife became a canner some years ago but this is the “off-season” for her.
Mira: correct VWG is 4T (1/4 cup). Subtle difference; a little looser when it’s short a tablespoon. Not a big deal, but we better get that corrected.
Bonnie: We have loaf pan breads too, you’ll see in the book. Generally bake longer.
Sheri: Yep, can use the covered-pan method to trap steam next to the loaf; check this out at http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552 and http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=566; also described in the new book.
And thanks to all of you I didn’t address directly, for all your kind words! Jeff
TiV said...
October 27, 2009 at 12:00 pm
One question about wheat gluten. I bought some from the local bakery. How long it will be okay to use? Should it be stored in fridge/freezer in order to last longer?
What if I use “old” wheat gluten? It just stops working or will it even harm the rest of the dough somehow?
jeff said...
October 27, 2009 at 12:09 pm
TiV: My container of VWG says “keep refrigerated or frozen for best storage.” I’m not certain what happens if it’s too old or improperly stored. I refrigerate it in airtight glass once opened, but since the store doesn’t refrigerate the sealed packages, neither do I. But the VWG you got from the bakery probably wasn’t in a sealed package, so I’d get it into the fridge in airtight glass. Jeff
lisaiscooking said...
October 27, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Congratulations on the new book! The whole grain breads sound fantastic, and I can’t wait to try them.
krista said...
October 27, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Any plans to stop in Canada during your tour?!
Sass said...
October 27, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
Completely coincidentally, I had bought some vital wheat gluten a few weeks ago with the intention of experimenting a little bit. But then, like a dolt, I forgot to include it when I mixed up my last batch of bread! I made the Light Whole Wheat from the original book, and also substituted white whole wheat for one of the cups of all-purpose. Just baked the first loaf of the batch, and it’s got a fabulous flavor but is just a tad bit denser than I was hoping for. Do you think it would be pointless and/or misguided to try sprinkling some vital wheat gluten on the remaining dough, and hoping some of it gets incorporated during cloaking? I assume stirring it in to the refrigerated dough would be be problematic. What do you think? Thanks so much for any advice you can offer!
Sass
Amy said...
October 27, 2009 at 6:21 pm
I’ve had trouble using the whole wheat recipes in your last book, and when I tried the new one tonight, I had the same issue- I can’t get them to rise! They rise up just fine in the bucket, but when I pull it out of the fridge, it doesn’t look like the photo above- it isn’t as stretchy, and while the flavor is good, the loaves only end up being about an inch or two tall, even in a loaf pan. I’m using Hodson Mill flour, and VWG. For the life of me, I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong. I’ve tried almost all of your other doughs, and they are fabulous. Thank you so much in advance for any advice you might have!
Drew said...
October 27, 2009 at 6:35 pm
This is great news! I, too, have had the book on back-order for awhile. My favorite way to make the traditional boule (I use 1/2 WWW) is shaping the dough at night, refrigerating and baking in the morning. Does the healthy dough adapt well to this method?
Cindy said...
October 27, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Congrats on new book. I have been playing with the first book recipes using whole grains with some success but can’t wait to have the correct recipes! Thanks for sharing this WW recipe…love vital wheat gluten..magic stuff!
Amy K said...
October 27, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Long time since I posted, but to let you know I received my pre-ordered HBin5 today from Amazon – it was waiting on my doorstep when I came home this evening – can’t wait to read it and try some of the new recipes – I”ve been a devotee of ABin5 for over a year – my favorites are Deli Rye and Euro Peasant breads, but have tried probably 20 different recipes and variations (mine and yours!) from the original book and loved most of them – I’m a good cook of many things, but whenever friends get together or there’s a pot luck – I’m always asked to bring the bread! Hope everyone loves the new book as much as I have loved the first one. Good luck on your tour – I would come to one of your signings but I live in East Tennessee and none are anywhere near! Come to Knoxville or even Nashville sometime. I am a native New Yorker, but I have discovered some good eatin’ in the South! although it’s still not easy to find great bread, that’s why I bake my own!
Kylie M said...
October 28, 2009 at 5:52 am
I originally ordered your first book for my Kindle and it’s great (i love it). Now that I ordered your second book I ordered an actual bound copy of it and the first book as well, the Kindle is great in case I need to pick up ingredients and for ease of use (bookmarks), but doesn’t do the pictures justice. We keep a batch of the boule and rye going at all times! I can’t wait to include the whole grains, the boule has been so versatile! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Congratulations on your success and best wishes for the future!
Mandy said...
October 28, 2009 at 5:56 am
Got my much awaited for copy yesterday, read it all last night and now cannot wait to make my first batch!
I have been doing my own versions of adding in whole grains and am looking forward to improved bread by following your recipes!
Thank you!
Patti said...
October 28, 2009 at 9:30 am
Got my pre-ordered books today! Yes, I ordered two copies of the new book. One is going to my daughter and son-in-law. My SIL is the one with celiac disease. Thanks so much for including a chapter of gluten-free recipes. They are coming for a visit next weekend and I will have some of that GF olive oil dough ready to go. He craves pizza more than anything else!!
Now I need to go look through the rest of the book…
Patti
Dorli said...
October 28, 2009 at 9:40 am
Hi Jeff and Zoe:
I was delighted to receive my pre-ordered book in the mail on Monday. I have been reading through the recipes and can’t wait to try some. I have a question though..in the Whole Wheat Brioche recipe it says to use 2 1/4 c. of vital wheat gluten. I assume that this is an error, since all the other recipes use 1/4 c. Could you verify this. Thanks. Good luck with your book tour.
LaJuana said...
October 28, 2009 at 9:50 am
Just had my first taste of the new recipe and it’s as expected…wonderful! I mixed the new master recipe Monday night and this morning was the first chance I had to bake it. I used a coated cast iron pan with lid, baked it closed about 25 minutes and then with the lid off about 10 minutes…put a thermometer in during the last ten minutes and when it pinged at 205* I took it out. Just gorgeous, inside and out…Took a couple of photos but haven’t checked them yet…must get back to work….more to do on this computer than play! : )
jeff said...
October 28, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Krista: Would love to get to Canada to teach and sign but publisher isn’t budgeting for it as of today…
Sass: Don’t sprinkle the VWG on the dough, it’s just not going to incorporate. Best I can tell you– use up the stuff relatively quickly and you won’t be that bothered by density, or even better: use for pizza and flatbread, that can’t go wrong.
Amy: Let’s try to figure out what’s up; other posters have been having this problem. So questions:
1. See if you like it better with Gold Medal Whole wheat or other more “commercial” whole wheat flour. Those are slightly finer-ground than Hodgson, and you may prefer the result.
2. Are you mixing in the VWG with the dry ingredients? Maybe it’s not doing its thing (which is to lighten up the dough). VWG is what made the difference for storing whole grain doughs; that was more of a challenge in our first book, as you say.
3. How are you measuring? Scoop and sweep without aeration? Weight? If the latter, are you confident of your scale?
4. Which recipe are you doing?
Drew: Yes, the whole grains do well with the overnight refrigerator rise.
Amy: another transplanted NYer!
Kylie: Interesting about the Kindle version; different purposes to each format. There’ll probably be more in the years to come.
Dorlie: Correct amount is 1/4 cup, you are right, thanks for catching.
LaJuana: Glad your 1st attempt w/Master worked well, look forward to seeing your pictures. Jeff
Ellen said...
October 28, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Hi Jeff & Zoe!
I love “Artisan Bread in Five…” So far I have made 3 or 4 different breads. They always come out perfect! My friends can’t get enough of it. I have never loved a book so much. I feel like a professional baker. I just ordered 2 copy’s of “Healthy Bread”, one for me and one for my friend for Christmas. Thanks for making it so easy and enjoyable!!! – Ellen
Stephanie said...
October 28, 2009 at 9:08 pm
My copy was waiting for me after work! Picked up the Vital Wheat Gluten, can’t wait to get started. Thanks so much!
Monique said...
October 29, 2009 at 12:40 am
Greetings Jeff & Zoe!
I tried this master WW bread and it turned out great! Like the recipes from the previous book, I always leave my refrigerated dough to rise much longer that you recommend (about 2 – 2.5 h) and the result springs up beautifully with a great crumb. But I reckon the rising time varies depending on how warm the house is. Mine is always a bit on the chilly side!
Can’t wait to get the new book now and thanks for all your efforts in developing these wonderful recipes!
LaJuana said...
October 29, 2009 at 6:50 am
BTW
My Vital Wheat Gluten doesn’t say anything about keeping it refrigerated after opening. It’s the Arrowhead Mills brand and I’ve had the box quite a while. Seems to have worked nicel yesterday. My bread had a fine crumb but it was perfect to me.
sunski said...
October 29, 2009 at 7:54 am
So excited about the new book – I’d been making bread from ABi5 with great results. Too great. I couldn’t stop eating it and felt guilty about all the refined carbs. I pre-ordered the book and it arrived yesterday. It was my bedtime reading and hard to put down. I can’t wait to try so many of the breads!
I mixed up a batch of the whole grain dough as soon after you psted this as I could get to the grocery store to buy some VWG and my first loaf is cooling on the counter right now. (So hard to wait!)
The 90 minute rest is going to be a real issue for me, though. I’m very glad too hear from your response to Drew that an overnight refrigerated rise will work. Just one follow up question. I assume that it will take longer to cook out of the refrigerator. Any idea how much longer for a 1 pound loaf?
Cynthia said...
October 29, 2009 at 9:11 am
I got my copy on the 27th. I made my first loaf of the plain and simple whole wheat bread last night. Delicious! Thanks again!
kimberly said...
October 29, 2009 at 12:05 pm
I’ve got my first batch of HBin5 bread rising as I type this!! I can’t tell you two how excited I am for this book. I’ve had 10/27 on my calendar for months! Thank you so very much! I actually gasped out loud when I turned to page 86 – whole wheat flaxseed bread. I feel like you made this recipe just for me! This is the exact kind of bread I have been buying from the supermarket for ages now. I’m so excited to be able to make it at home! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Can’t wait to try everything.
Anna said...
October 29, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Do you know when HBin5 will be available for the Kindle? I purchased ABin5 in Kindle format and would love to have HBin5 the same way. I like being able to annotate the recipes with my results and modifications. Thank you. I cannot wait to try the recipies in the new book.
Amy said...
October 29, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Just wanted to let you know I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new book! I had to go out and get the day it came out. I like working from the back of the book first – it is like eating dessert before dinner. So I just made the cinnamon cresent rolls last night and they were amazing! Thank you for doing what you do!
Nancy Courser said...
October 29, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Whole wheat pita bread? Still put in towel? How long before you can eat it? Thanks Nancy
Rosemary C said...
October 30, 2009 at 9:25 am
Was so excited to get my pre-ordered book the other day. We were on our way to the store when our mailman handed it to me. Bought the gluten and made a 1/2 batch right away. I didn’t even wait to refrigerate it. I used the “covered pot” method, and it was just fabulous. Couldn’t believe the rise for an almost all whole wheat loaf. Thanks so much. Genius! My package of gluten said to refrigerate it, so that is what I did.
jeff said...
October 30, 2009 at 11:44 am
To all of you who passed along good feelings about the new ingredients, good wishes, and positive experience, thank you so much– in these first days after book release, we are probably not going to have time to address each of you individually. For the moment, we’ll stick to the specific questions about the recipes:
Monique: Yes, chill room = longer rising time, for sure.
LaJuana: Interesting about the difference in labeling between Hodgson and Bob’s, thanks for passing along. I can’t explain.
Sunski: The one pound loaf will probably be done in 35 minutes, rather than 30 (not always in all ovens though, sometimes the same). Check it at 30, see what you think and let us know; go by color and browning.
Anna: The Kindle version is a negotiation between publisher and Amazon, and I’m afraid I don’t know when that will be settled. Amazon’s the best source for that info, but I’ll check with publisher too.
Nancy: Yes to pita, on page 66 and page 223 (two kinds Turkish-style pita with black sesame seeds, and seed-encrusted traditional pita respectively. The towels still in there, but just for the traditional, not the Turkish.
Jeff
Elizabeth said...
October 30, 2009 at 11:52 am
Very excited about the new book! I’m curious though, I just made the recipe above and found it to be rather bland. I did decrease the salt by 1/3 tablespoon and the yeast by 1/2 tablespoon because I have found many of the other book’s recipes to be too yeasty and salty for our tastes. I used fresh ground Wheat Montana Prairie Gold wheat berries. Otherwise, I followed the instructions exactly. I have some sitting in the fridge now and I am hoping the flavor improves after a few days.
Any comments, suggestions?
jeff said...
October 30, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Elizabeth: We’d already decreased the salt (you could go up to 1 1/2 T salt and you’d be about where our last book was sitting for salt). The flavor will definitely develop over the lifespan of the batch. Jeff
lynne said...
October 30, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Hi ur new book just arrived today–love it!
would u mind telling me which one of the recipes is for the bread with the purple crust and greenish crumb?
i thought maybe it would be the wine bread or the beet one
Jovina Coughlin said...
October 30, 2009 at 4:26 pm
The first recipe I made after the book arrived was the 100% whole wheat with olive oil. In the past I have tried many recipes for whole wheat pizza dough and they are generally heavy. Your recipe is suburb. The dough worked out just great. It was easy to fit in the pan, light after baking and very tasty. Everything I had been looking for in a healthier pizza. I topped it with roasted red peppers, caramelized red onions and fontina cheese.
Thank you so much for developing this method for whole grains – well worth the wait.
Ms. B said...
October 30, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Hey Jeff and Zoe!
Okay, first package shipped out on Wednesday to Kansas and it arrived PERFECTLY! I really do wish I could just send a book along with a gift card to a grocery store, but it’s cheaper for me to send a large batch of baked goods through the post office and their flat rate shipping boxes. I will post a blog about how it was packed. It’s quite funny, honestly. I like to ammuse myself on a daily basis, and oh how I excel with excellence!
I know you guys have started the book tour, so good luck!
Ms. B
clarice said...
October 30, 2009 at 5:51 pm
My first batch of the basic recipe is in the fridge. Can’t wait to try it.
zoe said...
October 30, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Hi Lynne,
It is the beet bread, but the mixed berry bread also has a gorgeous color as well!
Enjoy all the breads!
Zoë
zoe said...
October 30, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Thank you so much Jovina for writing! It means so much to us to hear your feedback!
Happy Baking! Zoë
zoe said...
October 30, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Hi Ms. B,
Thanks for letting us know, I was just thinking about you and wondering if it worked out ok! I’ll look forward to your post about it. Let me know when it goes up!
Thanks, Zoë
zoe said...
October 30, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Hi Clarice,
Enjoy all the bread! Zoë
clarice said...
October 31, 2009 at 11:30 am
Good day Jeff and Zoe, I just wanted to tell you how much I LOVE Healthy 5 minute bread book. I am soo inspired and I know my reader will be too. So thank you Clarice
jeff said...
October 31, 2009 at 11:45 am
Thanks for the kind words, Clarice, come back w/questions anytime. Jeff
Ms. B said...
October 31, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Hey Jeff and Zoe!
I have posted about the shipping stuff, along with two other posts on what I have tried and what experiments I’m considering trying. I’m thinkin’ banana brioche…?
Ms. B
CJC said...
October 31, 2009 at 5:51 pm
LOVE the new book! I pre-ordered and it was scheduled for delivery on Thursday . . . and my waiting was anything but patient. Dad walked in the door after work Wednesday with a package . . . my new book!!
Yesterday we used the WW master recipe for pizza on a stick (without the stick) and I have a batch of the German whole grain bread sitting on the counter. I also just agreed to mix up a batch of softer dough to make cinnamon rolls for church pot-luck tomorrow . . . . good thing you both know bread so well, or I’d be in a pickle.
A friend just found out her husband has to switch to a more whole grains diet, so I will be taking my copy of your new book to her as soon as she gets back from holiday. I so love sharing this goodness.
Thank you so much!
CJ
Joy said...
October 31, 2009 at 6:11 pm
You two changed the way I think about making bread at home with your first book. I can’t wait to get my copy of your new one next week in SF. See you at Foodbuzz!
zoe said...
October 31, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Hi Ms. B,
There is a Banana bread in HBin5, which is fantastic! Great minds think alike! 
Enjoy, Zoë
zoe said...
October 31, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Hi CJC,
That is wonderful! It sounds like you have as many buckets of dough going as I do!
Enjoy, Zoë
zoe said...
October 31, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Hi Joy,
I can’t wait to see you at foodbuzz! See you soon!
Zoë
Joni said...
November 1, 2009 at 9:42 am
Gratz on the new book. Got both copies of the new one, & am covering the kitchen in flour getting new batches made up BTW have been showing off my pics on facebook of beautiful bread from the first book….Lots of ppl have been asking me about recipes, even people who have never baked. Many good wishes for all your hard work
kellypea said...
November 1, 2009 at 9:46 am
Congrats on the obvious success of your second book! I finally ordered it (such a procrastinator) but am going to get started on the master today, so thanks for sharing it here. Reading through everyone’s questions here has been great for troubleshooting, too. Looking forward to seeing you both at the FoodBuzz Festival!
Robert said...
November 1, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Hi. In the four-leaf clover buns recipe on page 174 of the new book, should that be 1/4 cup or 1/4 tablespoon of vital wheat gluten?
jeff said...
November 1, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Joni: Thanks for the kind words!
Kellypea: FoodBuzz is going to be fantastic, hope we can connect there.
Robert: 1/4-cup is correct, sorry about that, looks like you guessed the correct answer.
Jeff
amy said...
November 1, 2009 at 10:03 pm
tried this 73% recipe, but bread was very dense, little rise on the counter or oven spring.
When i cut off the ball to bake, it didn’t stretch at all like in your picture, it just came off the dough in the bucket in a clump.
Do you think the problem could be that I used coarsely ground whole wheat flour?
What can i do to save the dough that’s left?
zoe said...
November 1, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Hi Amy,
It very well could be the coarsely ground flour that you are using. The bran in flours like that tend to act as little saws which cut the gluten strands and can make the bread denser. If you want to use the course flour, you may have to play with using more VWG in order to get that stretch you want. Perhaps consider a combination of wheat flours to achieve the flavor you want and the texture.
I hope that helps! Zoë
clarice said...
November 2, 2009 at 7:40 am
The master recipe whole wheat bread is absolutely delicious. I had it this morning with some sheeps milk cheese and it was yummy.
Amy said...
November 2, 2009 at 9:32 am
Thanks for getting back to me, Jeff! It’s very much appreciated.
I use have used Gold Medal whole wheat flour in the past, but not with the vital wheat gluten, so I’ll give that a go. I’m using the scoop and sweep method, and when I made the WG master recipe, I did mix the gluten into the flour before I added the water. It gave the dough a little more rise, but not much- should I add more? I’ve also tried the Light Whole Wheat bread from the first book, and the Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread Inspired by Chris Kimball. I have made the latter several times (my kids love it, rise or not!) and tried different resting times and rise times, without much luck.
Thanks for the help!
Anna said...
November 2, 2009 at 11:21 am
Thanks for the reply, Jeff. I have asked Amazon to ask the publisher to make a Kindle version available. I agree with Kylie’s comments about the differences between the Kindle and print versions. In addition, the Kindle version is handy for showing people the book when not at home or in a bookstore.
I am looking forward to trying the gluten-free versions for others in the family.
Thanks!
cindi said...
November 2, 2009 at 1:07 pm
I have been milling my flour for a long time and would like to use fresh milled for your recipes. Have you experimented at all with it? I think it soaks up more liquid than the preground. Also, I wonder if it’s possible to grind it and store it in the freezer a few days before using. I don’t know if that would make a difference or not. Ok, well, hope you have a perspective on that thanks! Cindi
Petra said...
November 2, 2009 at 4:31 pm
I just got the new book on Saturday and am about to make the Vollkornbrot. It’s in the pan for its rise, but I am a little confused wrt the instructions. I am to place a baking stone in the middle rack and the broiler tray (for steam) on another rack (I use the bottom rack for this). Then I am supposed to place the loaf pan in the center of the oven. I assume that means on top of the baking stone. Am I correct? I don’t know that I’ve ever placed a PAN on the stone, just a freeform loaf. But I only have 2 metal racks in my oven!
Petra said...
November 3, 2009 at 5:01 am
Piggy-backing on my own last message–I made the Vollkornbrot. My, that was the heaviest loaf of bread I have made in my life. It was also the first 100% whole grain bread I made that tasted fab! I feel so virtuous eating a slice (or three). After the 36-hr. refrigerator rest, the wheat berries really did soften up. I did replace the rye flakes with old fashioned oats (had them on hand). Thanks Jeff and Zoe
Dana said...
November 3, 2009 at 7:17 am
I just love having fresh dough in the fridge, ready to play with! Question: I bought a Nutrimill (home grain mill) and a bucket of white whole wheat. Can I use freshly milled wheat in your recipes without alteration? Thank you.
jeff said...
November 3, 2009 at 7:52 am
Cindi: More to come on this– yes, it soaks up more water, but I haven’t tested it myself yet. Will post on this sometime before winter. Jeff
jeff said...
November 3, 2009 at 7:55 am
Petra: The idea was to must place the bread near the middle, and the water tray anywhere else. It can be on top of the baking stone if you have room, or with a loaf pan, you can omit the baking stone. I like the stone, it evens the heat, and even improves pan breads.
clarice said...
November 4, 2009 at 6:22 pm
I ried the whole wheat banana bread recipe and it is fabulous. Not like the usual too moist and too sweet variety. It has a lovely texture and the banana flavor is there but not overpowering–much more subtle and flavorful.
zoe said...
November 4, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Hi Clarice,
I’m so thrilled that you tried the banana bread! I love it too!
Thanks, Zoë
Paul G said...
November 5, 2009 at 2:14 am
Our local newspaper recently printed your master dough recipe and as I read through it, I have all indgredients on hand but do not have a “baking stone”. Does this make a difference in the finished product????
jeff said...
November 5, 2009 at 8:23 am
Paul– the stone gives you a more evenly-baked and crisp result, but is not absolutely essential. More details in the book, or you can read around in this website for others experiences. Jeff
Lara said...
November 5, 2009 at 11:01 am
I had bought the Artisan bread last month and ordered Healthy Bread yesterday. I made my first boule this morning (whipped up the base dough yesterday & let it rest overnight). Wow.
This is really the easiest bread I’ve ever made, even easier than my bread machine.
I would encourage people to get the book. Yes, the blogs & website have a lot of information, but having the book is like hanging out with you in your kitchen while we bake. I really enjoy reading it.
Thanks & keep ‘em coming.
jeff said...
November 5, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Thanks Lara, such a nice note.
clarice said...
November 5, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Zoe–This morning I had some with Nutella–WoW..C
zoe said...
November 5, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Hi Clarice,
That sounds fantastic!
Zoë
Jo Klammer said...
November 6, 2009 at 10:45 pm
If I substitute beer for some of the liquid….How much should I use? Will this produce a yeastier flavor. Love love your books… Jo
Aubin said...
November 7, 2009 at 12:25 pm
I haven’t read through all the comments yet, so I don’t know if someone else has already mentioned this or not. I just received my copy of the new book, and noticed that in your description of spelt you say that you’ve never found a version that isn’t whole grain. You then say a refined version of spelt flour is not being sold in the US. That’s not the case! VitaSpelt makes a white, refined spelt flour, I have been using it for well over 5 years. The natural foods co-op where I shop even has it in their bulk bins. It’s delicious and very versatile, I’ve used it for all kinds of things as a replacement for AP wheat flour. It doesn’t seem to be quite as fully refined as AP wheat flour, it has the odd fleck of bran in it, but whole grain it most certainly is not! I also use whole grain spelt flour, either purchased or ground at home (including some that is made from sprouted spelt), I do know the difference, the appearance, texture and results are totally different. The package also is labeled “white spelt flour” (I’ve ordered large bags of it at times, not just buying it from the bulk bin). I hope people trying to avoid refined flour won’t be confused by this!
I’m excited to try the recipes in the new book. I have been making the first book’s light whole wheat recipe using sprouted wholegrain spelt flour in place of whole wheat flour, and increasing the proportion of that to be about 1/3 of the total flour. The results are amazingly delicious with wonderful texture, even without adding any vital wheat gluten. I hope my beloved sprouted spelt flour will be a successful substitution for whole wheat in many of the recipes in the new book.
clarice said...
November 7, 2009 at 1:30 pm
I tried the deli rye from your first book with the tip from the new one–just brush with water (forget the cornstarch mix) before sprinking on the seeds. Works just fine–and that is another of my favorite bread recipes.
Jessie said...
November 7, 2009 at 6:20 pm
For whatever reason I cant open your site
healthybreadinfive.com Artisanbreadinfive.com keeps on opening has anyone else complained??
jeff said...
November 7, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Hey, both sites go to the same location on the internet– they’re the same site, so you’re good:
artisanbreadinfive.com = healthybreadinfive.com
jeff said...
November 8, 2009 at 11:50 am
Sorry we missed some of the above on book tour:
Jo: You can swap up to a cup of beer for water, see what you think– less for milder flavor.
Aubin: Not familiar with the product you mention, but if it’s bran-depleted you may need a little less water than we specify. Experiment and see what you think.
Clarice– yep, all will work that way with seeds in either book.
Jeff
Aubin said...
November 8, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Jeff,
There are now also some other brands of white (refined) spelt flour on the market as well, I checked yesterday. Sorry to be confusing, the refined spelt flour is a different product than the sprouted spelt flour I mentioned (which is whole grain, not bran depleted at all). I posted because I don’t want people who do find the refined spelt version to be confused, to think it’s whole grain when in fact it isn’t (because of the comment in the book that there is no refined spelt flour being sold in the US). Obviously, the refined spelt flour would differ from whole grain, both in nutritional value and in the way it behaves in recipes.
Incidentally, I have found with the refined spelt flour I’ve used that it absorbs quite a bit less water than refined wheat flour, a greater difference than I think could be accounted for by the tiny amount of bran left in it. For instance, when I make a pie crust with refined spelt flour, it needs only 4 TBS. of water for a given amount of flour and fat used, when the same recipe made with wheat flour takes about 6 TBS. It has been the same with bread recipes, and I have become accustomed to being cautious about the flour/liquid ratios when I’m using a recipe written for wheat flour but subbing spelt flour instead, either leaving out liquid or adding a bit more flour.
Whole grain spelt flour also seems to me to absorb less water than whole grain wheat flour, but the difference seems less than that between the refined versions of each flour.
It would be great to have a forum specifically to address these differences that home bakers using your excellent books with alternatives to refined wheat flour encounter, a way to share all these little tweaks to help out other bakers with common interests and requirements. As the recipes with alternative flours get tested in so many different kitchens, all kinds of useful tips could be shared.
I suspect the sprouted spelt whole grain flour I mentioned before will work as well in the recipes from the HBin5 book as it has in the ABin5 recipes.
Morgen said...
November 8, 2009 at 2:28 pm
I was not able to find vital wheat gluten in my local health food store, but found 75% gluten flour. Can I use this as a substitute in your master whole grain recipe? Would I use the same amount?
Andrew said...
November 8, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Amazon doesn’t have the Table of Contents posted. Would you mind putting the Table of Contents on your web site? Thanks.
Jo Klammer said...
November 8, 2009 at 9:15 pm
In using beer in the HB recipes….How much should we use?
Love your books… Thanks!
jeff said...
November 9, 2009 at 11:57 am
Morgen: Interesting question— I’m not certain what percent-gluten is found in Bob’s or in Hodgson, but it’s probably not a pure product. I think this is worth trying. Just swap it in; if it’s too wet when you’re mixed, next time use a little more. If too dry, use a little less next time. Jeff
jeff said...
November 9, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Andrew: Here it is, more or less (it’s by chapter):
The Secret
1. Introduction
2. Ingredients
3. Equipment
4. Tips and Techniques
5. The Master Recipe
6. Whole Grain Breads
7. Breads with Hidden Fruits and Vegetables
8. Flatbreads and Pizza
9. Gluten-free breads and pastries
10. Enriched Breads and Pastries from Healthy Ingredients
jeff said...
November 9, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Thanks Jo– I’d swap anywhere from a quarter-cup to a full cup of beer for water. Jeff
Elizabeth M said...
November 11, 2009 at 7:52 am
Jeff and Zoe,
Thanks so much again for all of the information you share on the Web site. I’m eagerly awaiting my Christmas gift of HBin5 — I’ve loved ABin5, which was LAST year’s Christmas gift. So I really appreciate you sharing this whole grain master online.
I have a question though. With a variation on the ABin5 “light wheat bread” (I added oat bran and ground flax seed), I almost always left a tiny bit of dough in the container and mixed my next batch on top of it. Sometimes I added a tiny bit of extra warm water, and let it soak a bit before adding the dry ingredients (to help the older dough soften fully).
I now have a batch of this new Master version rising. Do you have any suggestions of how to add some older dough, since you mention having to mix the dry ingredients in the container first now? Have you been able to just mix them on top of a little old dough and still found that it incorporated well in the new batch?
I’ve just liked the extra “depth” that a bit of older dough added to a new batch.
Thanks again for the books and your generosity in answering questions and sharing hints!
jeff said...
November 11, 2009 at 8:44 am
Elizabeth: Yes, I love doing the “old dough” method. There are two basic approaches I’ve used, and I’m not absolutely certain I can tell the difference between them: the LAZY way, and the CAREFUL way.
LAZY METHOD: In the first book, where water is put into the container first, I just dump the liquids on top of the old dough sitting in the bottom of the bucket. Use a fork to loosen the stuff up, but don’t worry about suspending or dissolving it– it’s a pain to get it to do so. Then add the dry ingredients and mix as usual. I don’t generally notice irregular areas where it didn’t mix in. For the new book, you mix the dry ingreds first, so this is a little different— you have to get the vital wheat gluten mixed in pretty well with the flours before you add liquids, but otherwise pretty much the same. IF you can carefully get the VWG to mix in with flour right on top of the old dough, that’s fine too— I do that a lot.
CAREFUL METHOD: Spend lots of time suspending the old dough into the liquids, even going so far as to use an immersion blender. I’ve generally found it’s not worth it.
Beth said...
November 13, 2009 at 4:38 am
How much “oven spring” should your delicious-looking loaf have? Can this be made in a smallish loaf pan for higher slices? Thank you!
jeff said...
November 13, 2009 at 6:24 am
Beth: As the batch ages over it’s lifespan, you get less oven spring and the loaf gets denser. That’s why it’s so important to handle the dough gently– you’re trying to preserve the gas inside the mass of dough.
I can’t exactly quantify the amount of oven spring, except to say that our stuff gets more of its rise from oven spring than from proofing (the rest the formed loaf takes on your counter). In order to get generous-looking loaf breads, fill the pan 3/4-full rather than the less-generous half-full. I frequently do as you suggest, and bake in a mini-loaf pan– I’ve used these from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000VLH06?ie=UTF8&tag=arbrinfimiada-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0000VLH06“>Chicago Metallic Professional Mini Loaf Pan, Set of 4<img src=”http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=arbrinfimiada-20&l=as2&o=1&a=B0000VLH06″ width=”1″ height=”1″ border=”0″ alt=”" style=”border:none !important; margin:0px !important;
Jackie said...
November 16, 2009 at 4:12 am
I would like to buy your book, but I am sodium restricted. Can I use a much smaller amount of salt.
jeff said...
November 16, 2009 at 7:11 am
Jackie: In the book, we talk about reducing the salt down to whatever level is appropriate to your diet, or even eliminating it altogether. Obviously the taste will be very different.
We also talk about using salt subsititutes, which are potassium-based salts. Make sure your doctor is OK with your using those before trying that route. The flavor’s different; some people are fine with it, some don’t like it. See what you think. Jeff
Vera said...
November 17, 2009 at 9:30 am
I just have to rave about this recipe. I’ve just started my 4th batch. (I should probably consider doubling the recipe). It seems like it turns out better and better each time. My family eats it up as quickly as I make it, and I’ve given a few loaves away as “just because” gifts. I do use the white whole wheat flour – my family likes it better this way. I also use your corn starch wash before putting seeds on the bread – they just seem to stick better with the wash. My favorite seed mixture for this loaf is 1 tsp each of sunflower, pumpkin, flax, poppy and coarse sea salt. Yummy! Thanks for a great recipe!
zoe said...
November 17, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Hi Vera,
So glad you are enjoying it and your seed mixture sounds wonderful!
Thanks, Zoë
Susan Yates said...
November 18, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I would like to get in Bob’s Red Mill giveaway and read any thing I can find about wheat.
Andrew said...
November 18, 2009 at 10:12 pm
I’ve made the master recipe with normal whole wheat flour, but sometimes I don’t want such a heavy taste. I’ve gone to four grocery stores to try to find white whole wheat flour, but it doesn’t seem to exist anywhere in Utah. I’ve found huge buckets of hard white wheat, but I haven’t been able to find any flour. Do you have any suggestions on where to find it? I’m thinking of getting a wheat grinder just so I can try white whole wheat bread.
jeff said...
November 19, 2009 at 7:56 am
Susan: Please put a Comment into the new post to enter the contest: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1209#more-1209
Andrew: King Arthur Flour does it through mail order (http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/king-arthur-white-whole-wheat-flour-5-lb), or you can try spelt if you can find that (there’s a Bob’s Red Mill product available in supermarkets). Jeff
Laura said...
November 22, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Just wanted to comment that your book is the last place I would have expected to find gluten free bread recipes, and what a fantastic surprise to find absolutely wonderful gluten free bread recipes. The gluten free bread are fantastic. I even used one of the basic recipes to make little calzones and my daughter was beyond thrilled. I think this might be the first comment about the gluten free recipes in your book. You need to find a way to get the word out to the gluten free world!
zoe said...
November 22, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Hi Laura,
Thank you so much for your feedback! We have had so many requests for gluten-free breads done in our method, so we wanted to give folks that option. So pleased that you and your daughter are enjoying them!
Thanks, Zoë
Lisa said...
November 23, 2009 at 5:52 pm
How important is it for the dough to fall after the initial rising? My dough has been rising in the bowl for five hours and it has not yet fallen. I am basically following the master recipe, but with about half wheat flour/half white. I am going to bed so I put the dough in the fridge. Would it be better to leave it out all night?
jeff said...
November 24, 2009 at 8:31 am
Lisa: Don’t worry about getting it to fall– I’m sure it’s ready for the fridge. But it won’t harm anything if you left it out overnight. Just refrigerate it now if that’s what you did.
But… you can’t just change the wheat/white ratio like you’ve done without changing the amount of liquid. Wheat absorbs much more water than white. I’m guessing that this dough will be too wet to work with outside of a loaf pan. Jeff
Lisa said...
November 25, 2009 at 7:30 am
Thanks for the info. I am baking in a wood stove-I live in rural Chile-it is easier to work with the bread in small loaves out side of a loaf pan so I can move them around so they bake evenly. They do tend to spread a bit, so I will play with the amount of water and see what happens.
Andrew said...
November 26, 2009 at 8:27 pm
I’ve been reading through the new book (thanks!). Several of the recipes, such as the Rosemary Flax Baguette and the Whole Grain Maple Oatmeal Bread, call for 1/2 cup of wheat germ flour. I don’t recall seeing this at the grocery stores–how would I have to modify the recipes if I leave this out?
Andy said...
November 27, 2009 at 3:36 pm
I bought the book recently and tried my first batch with the Master recipe. I weighed all the ingredients, including the water, to ensure that all measurements were accurate, but my dough is very, very wet. My first loaf was so wet it left a wet spot on my pizza peel and turned the cornmeal underneath to mush. The loaf really spread and when baked it was only 1″ thick.
I read the section on Dough Moisture Content and added at least a 1/2 cup of white flour to the remaining mix to absorb the moisture and put it back in the fridge for a couple days. Tonight I went to make another loaf and when I pulled up a hunk of dough there was about a 1/4 inch of water in the bottom of the bin. I added another 1/2 cup of flour, formed a loaf, and put it on parchment paper. After 90 minutes the parchment is soaking wet and the loaf is basically sitting in a puddle of water.
Any advice? I have made a few batches of the master recipe with white flour only from Artisan Bread in Five, and never had these problems.
jeff said...
November 28, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Andy: Very different experience, so first question: any chance you’re using bleached flour for the white-flour part of the recipe, or “light” spelt instead of regular whole wheat (or dark spelt)?
How are you measuring the flour (scoop and sweep is what works)?
Once we hear back, we’ll take it from there. Jeff
Andy said...
November 29, 2009 at 8:58 am
Thanks for your response Jeff. I’m using the same white flour I used for the master recipe in Artisan Bread in Five. It’s a generic brand and the package says “Unbleached Flour – Enriched Pre-Sifted All Purpose Flour”. The whole wheat flour is also generic and just says “Whole Wheat Flour” on the package.
I measured all ingredients using a digital scale and the metric measurements on page 54. I looked in the bucket this morning and there was a puddle of water in one corner. When I lifted the dough it was completely soaked on the bottom again.
I have made two loafs from this batch, and they do taste good, but the dough really spreads when resting and leaves a big wet spot underneath, even though I have added at least one more cup of white flour to the batch.
Thanks again,
Andy
zoe said...
November 29, 2009 at 9:51 am
Hi Andy,
Let me rule out high altitude baking before anything else. What you describe are often issues with baking in the Mountains. But, you said you didn’t have these issues with the ABin5 master.
How old is the dough? We have found that the dough is much easier to use and holds its shape much better once it is chilled. The liquid under the dough usually happens if the dough has gone unused for several days. This would also account for the liquid on the top of the dough. You can still use it, but may need to incorporate even more flour at this stage.
One other thought is that your WW flour is a lower protein and your dough would improve with another couple of tablespoons of Vital Wheat Gluten.
Let me know if any of this helps and we can take it from there!
Zoë
Andy said...
November 29, 2009 at 11:42 am
Hi Zoë,
I’m in Toronto, so we can definitely rule out altitude. I made the first loaf one day after mixing the batch, so it was quite new and the second loaf a few days later.
Andy said...
November 29, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Zoe, you mentioned that my WW flour may be low in protein, so I had a look in the book to see if there was any info on protein levels.
Page 10 says that WW flour for bread is high in protein and all purpose is low in protein, but it doesn’t say what high or low is. The nutrition facts on my package says there is 4 grams of protein in a 1/4 cup (30g) serving. Should I be looking for something with a higher protein content, and if so, what protein levels should I be looking for? In the meantime I will try a another couple of tablespoons of Vital Wheat Gluten in the next batch.
Thanks again,
Andy
zoe said...
November 29, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Hi Andy,
Everything that I have heard about flour in Canada is that it is fairly hard wheat and therefore has a high protein content. I’m stumped and need to get with Jeff to contemplate what it could be. In the mean time do try adding a bit more VWG and see if that gives you more structure to your loaf.
Thanks and we will keep at this until we can figure it out! Zoë
Tom Drake said...
November 29, 2009 at 4:42 pm
I’m not very interested in the crackling crust and I want sandwich bread, so I’d like to make the bread in loaf pans. What changes do I need to make to use the regular recipes for a load pan?
zoe said...
November 29, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Hi Tom,
Here is a post about making loaf pan breads: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=904 Let me know if this is what you are looking for.
Thanks, Zoë
Scott said...
November 30, 2009 at 12:06 pm
I bought some Zatar and want to make the Naan Bread from ABin5. Can I use the WW master bread from HBin5? Or, can you recomend a HBin5 bread for Naan? thanks!!
zoe said...
November 30, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Hi Scott,
You are the second person today to ask about using the HBin5 master to make naan. It will work beautifully, I do it all the time!
Thanks and enjoy, Zoë
Andy said...
November 30, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Just to update my earlier post about my wet dough. Yesterday I added another 1/2 cup of WW flour to what was left of the batch, and after mixing it into the dough it looked pretty firm and dry. I was actually worried I may have added too much flour, but today I opened the bucket and there was water in the corners and the dough looked very wet again. There was about two pounds of dough left, so I decided to use it all up by baking it in a bread pan as per the recipe on page 62.
I lightly dusted the dough, formed it into an oval, put it in a lightly greased bread pan and let it sit for 1 hour 45 min. When I went to put it in the oven I could see water all around the edges of the dough, as if it was sitting in water.
I don’t know what’s going on, but no matter how much flour I add, this batch is like an over saturated sponge that just can’t hold the moisture. Hopefully the next batch will be better.
zoe said...
November 30, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Hi Andy,
That is so very odd. I was thinking of you tonight while I baked dough at my mother’s house. She had some “old” dough in her refrigerator that she had not used in several days and it was very liquidy on the bottom. I stirred in some more flour and because we were in a hurry I shaped it and let it rest right away. We baked it and it was wonderful. I usually let the dough sit in the bucket for a couple of hours after adding more flour, but this time we rushed it and I was amazed that it worked so well.
I was hoping that you were going to have similar results when you added more flour to your batch. Sigh. Do try it again and hopefully this was just an odd batch and you will never see anything like it again!
Thanks for keeping in touch as you experiment. It really is helpful for us to know when things like this come up.
Zoë
Andy said...
December 1, 2009 at 9:32 am
Hi Zoë,
I will definitely let you know how the next batch goes. I baked the loaf in the pan last night and because it was so wet the cuts I made in the top closed over very quickly and the loaf split along the side instead. So it didn’t look so nice, but it still tastes pretty good.
judielaine said...
December 3, 2009 at 3:55 pm
I’m delighted this book came out when it did — i’d enjoyed the first book but just found myself identifying a mild wheat sensitivity. No more bread except at special occasions for me!
I’m preparing to make some of your gluten free doughs and none seem to suggest that they can be frozen. Can the gluten free brioche be frozen? I hope so!
Off to buy brown rice flour , teff, tapioca flour, corn starch and xanthan gum!
zoe said...
December 3, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Hi Judielaine,
When you mix up the gluten free doughs be sure to add the liquid ingredients gradually. Unlike our wheat based recipes the g-f will become lumpy if you add the liquids all at once. You may be better off making a half batch rather than freezing the dough. It is something that we have not tested well enough to feel comfortable to recommend. My concern is that the xanthan gum may not hold up to the freezing, but if you are compelled to try it please report back and let us know what you find.
Thanks and enjoy! Zoë
Gluten free bread baking: ingredient analysis « Paw Prints said...
December 5, 2009 at 7:59 am
… described as keeping for just seven days: i suppose i could freeze the baked results? (I ask that here.) The olive oil dough can be used for pizza, a baguette, crackers, and bread sticks.
jeff said...
December 5, 2009 at 8:17 am
PawPrints: We prefer to freeze the dough as it reaches the end of its batch-life, then defrost overnight in the fridge and bake off the next day. Seems much better than frozen baked bread. Or try our par-baked method, which is in the first book. Jeff
Scott Smith said...
December 14, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I love the breads in ABin5 and love HBin5. I bought 3 of the cookbooks as presents for Xmas.
Now that I have been making HB breads for a while, I miss some of the old AB breads. I miss the fluffy light texture.
I tried to make the Oat Flour bread and substituted 1 Cup of APF for 1 C of White WW flour and 1 Tbsp of VWG. The bread was pretty dense.
Is there a rule of thumb that I can use to swap some WW flour into the ABin5 recipes?
Thanks in advance!
Kathie said...
December 14, 2009 at 7:38 pm
I made my first loaf for dinner tonight, it was delicious!!!! It was so good, I decided I would rather have a big slice of bread and a plain salad than the leftovers I had intended. It baked up beautifully in my 6 qt enamel cast iron pot, great crust and tender inside! The great thing about this method is I already have the dough to make a few more loaves. In fact I am going to a potluck luncheon tomorrow and may just make up another loaf for that. I can’t wait to get the book for Christmas! Thank you!!!
zoe said...
December 15, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Hi Scott,
There is no real rule of thumb, just trial and error. To get the lighter texture of the ABin5 breads you probably don’t want more than 50% whole grains. Once you go above 50% the texture of the breads is naturally denser. You will also want to keep the vital wheat gluten at a 1/4 cup even though you have more white flour.
Hope that helps and please let us know how it goes! Zoë
zoe said...
December 15, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Hi Kathie,
Thank you for the lovely note, we are thrilled that you are enjoying the bread!
Cheers, Zoë
Sue said...
December 21, 2009 at 10:48 am
Haven’t purchased the “Healthy Bread in five Minutes a Day” yet but did copy the master recipe. Found the Vital Wheat Gluten at the Boise Co-op and purchased a package. Finished off my “Peasant” batch from you first book and while that baked I make a “new” batch of the whole wheat bread. After it rose for 2 hours I pulled off a grapefruit sized piece and made my first loaf. I thought the bread from you first book was to die for. “HOWEVER THIS LOAF TOPPED THAT. I still can’t believe how easy and fast it is to make delicious home baked bread from start to finish in about 80 to 90 minutes.
Thank you both for these delicious and healthy breads. If santa doesn’t leave me you new book, it will be my first purchase after Christmas.
Thank You Thank You!!!
Sue in Idaho
jeff said...
December 21, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Sue, we loved reading your note, makes it all worth it. Come visit again anytime you have questions or problems. Jeff
Magali said...
December 22, 2009 at 10:44 am
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I’m really impressed by the fabulous array of recipes in HB5!
However I haven’t been successful making the master recipe yet – when I make it the dough is really, really wet. No way I could form a free form loaf. I bake it in a tin but the crumb is sticky and gummy (my toddlers still love it though!).
So I’m guessing my dough is too wet.
I make it with freshly ground wheat flour which I weigh out. I weigh out the white flour too.
The white flour I use is 00 so very high gluten so in theory that should make the dough drier rather than wetter ???
The only other thing I can think of is the water. I use a measuring cup that says it holds 250ml. In HB5 it says 4 cups of water or 900g….am i putting too much water maybe? I thought 1000ml of water weighed 1000g but maybe my measuring cups are wrong? I’m in the UK so it may be that my measuring cups aren’t the right size.
Does any of your videos show what the dough should look like immediately after mixing?
Thank you for your time once again
zoe said...
December 22, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Hi Magali,
The issue is with the type of flour you are using. The “00″ flour is actually very low in protein and therefore you will have a wetter dough. It is wonderful for pasta and pizza, but doesn’t have enough structure for breads. You want to use a flour that is hard wheat and “00″ is made from soft wheat. Our all-purpose is closer to “plain flour” in the UK.
Are you able to find the vital wheat gluten?
Thanks , Zoë
Magali said...
December 23, 2009 at 2:22 am
Thanks Zoe.
That explains it then!
When I visited my family some months ago in France I went to a health food shop that sold large packs of gluten. I only bought it bc I have searched for it in the past in the UK and not been successful.
At the time I didn’t know how happy I would be to have it in the pantry when I received your book!
Would the 00 flour work for your non-wholegrain recipes?
Thank you so much for all the help you give us – it makes such a difference.
zoe said...
December 23, 2009 at 6:22 am
Hi Magali,
The 00 flour is really too soft for loaf breads, but will make a nice pizza or flatbread. It may be a little sticky to handle, but with enough flour on your hands and the counter you can certainly do it. Our next book is about pizza and flatbreads and we will be developing a recipe using 00 flour. It doesn’t come out for nearly two years so you may want to do some experimenting on your own, or freeze that flour until 2011!
So glad you were able to get the vital wheat gluten.
Cheers, Zoë
Pen Andrishok said...
December 29, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I tried my first five minute bread from your Healthy Bread Cookbook. The dough did not deflate after two hours. It was set near a wood stove so I am wondering if the temperature of the room is important. After refrigeration my dough came apart easily. I didn’t need to cut it. Any suggestions?
Can’t wait to try more recipes!
zoe said...
December 29, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Hi Pen,
It is okay if the dough does not deflate after the 2 hours, just throw it in the refrigerator and it will continue to rise and do its thing. By the morning it will be all set to go.
The master recipe made with whole wheat is not quite as elastic as the one made with only all-purpose. Perhaps you should take a look at our videos and make sure that your dough is not too dry. If it looks much drier than ours you may need to add a touch more water next time. http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63
Thanks, Zoë
Susan from California said...
January 1, 2010 at 12:08 pm
I’ve been experimenting with whole wheat sourdough bread making for the last 2 years, and haven’t come up with a light airy loaf yet. The bread is delicious, but dense. Needless to say, I fell in love with your technique when I recently found your new book.
I use organic whole wheat bread flour and organic whole wheat white flour (instead of the all purpose flour) and sea salt, instead of the kosher salt. I buy it all, including the yeast and gluten in bulk at our local health food store. Since I don’t own a stone or pizza peel, I use a non-stick perforated pizza pan. I place the wet loaf directly on it (no parchment, corn meal or oil needed). I bake the bread on the middle oven shelf, on the perforated pan, using the broiler pan with hot water on the bottom shelf. I’ve gotten perfect results each time.
I will experiment by adding some of my sourdough starter to the basic recipe, to see if I can get that great San Francisco sourdough taste. Has anyone done this, yet?
jeff said...
January 1, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Susan: Interesting experience you’ve had with this, terrific. For my experience with natural sourdoughs in this method, check out http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1284. Jeff
Debbie said...
January 1, 2010 at 6:23 pm
I have to say how impressed I am that you’ve chosen to post your master boule and master wheat recipes online, which only cemented my decision to purchase both books, once my family gave me the thumbs up on taste. I am having a great time discovering all the things I can make, with the basics. Now to dive into the books and try some new recipes from them. Thanks so much!
zoe said...
January 1, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Hi Debbie,
We are thrilled that you enjoyed the breads well enough to want the books.
Enjoy and Happy New Year! Zoë
Tom Drake said...
January 2, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Thanks. I think that is what I wanted. I’ll bake some and see.
Keith W said...
January 5, 2010 at 11:11 am
On Page 64 of “Healthy Bread”…Whole Grain Garlic Knots, the recipe calls for 2 tablespoons of grated Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese.
I do not see where the cheese is used in the recipe…is it just added to to the top of the bread when it comes out of the oven? (I am sure it is there, I am probably misreading the recipe).
Really enjoy the new book, have made several of the recipes…easy and always delicious.
Thanks.
jeff said...
January 5, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Keith: Sorry, should add “Sprinkle grated cheese over the knots” to Step 5. Jeff
Marion said...
January 5, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Hi Zoe Jeff, just found your site and made my first artisan bread today I am a little dissapointed it didnt get brown and was a bit heavy, but I shall keep trying, I would love to buy your books but live in Margarita Island (Venezuela) and dont seem to be able to locate a bookstore here that stocks it either in Spanish (which I am not fluent in) or english And worse still we dont recieve mail here so I cannot order online great dissappointment , also with regard to vital wheat gluten I cannot find it here can I use any substitute for this if not I am lost please please help, I do make a lot of different breads with the old method but would love an easier life, keep up the good work, Marion
zoe said...
January 5, 2010 at 8:41 pm
Hi Marion,
Are you trying the whole grain recipe or the one made with all-purpose flour? The whole grain recipe without the vital wheat gluten will certainly be a bit heavy. The vital wheat gluten allows it more stretch and a better rise.
What kind of flour are you using? Can you find a high protein bread flour?
Thanks for trying the breads! Zoë
Drew said...
January 6, 2010 at 8:42 am
Hi Zoe and Jeff,
I have both of your books and have loved everything I have made from them so far.
I was looking at trying the recipe for Banana Bread in your new book and noticed that it called for white whole wheat flour. Would a standard whole wheat flour work in the same amounts? I have limited storage at the moment and don’t really want to add a fourth type of flour to the cupboard.
Thanks for a great set of books and I look forward to the next one!
-drew-
zoe said...
January 6, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Hi Drew,
It will work, but may have a stronger wheat flavor. This bread is not as sweet as the traditional “quick” banana bread, so you may want to add a couple more tablespoons of honey? Depends on your taste and how sweet your bananas are.
Thanks, Zoë
Janet said...
January 7, 2010 at 7:22 am
Just started my first batch of the Healthy Bread master recipe. Can’t wait to bake a loaf. I don’t buy bread anymore. Love it !!!
Nanette said...
January 9, 2010 at 3:09 am
I made the 10 grain bread from the December/January issue of Mother Earth news yesterday after searching high and low for “Vital Wheat Gluten” for several weeks. On Bob’s Red Mill’s website, it listed a lot of local grocery stores who were distributors but none of them carried this particular product. I finally found another brand (NOW Foods) in a local health food store which was called “Wheat Gluten Flour” but I wasn’t sure if this was what I was supposed to be using? While the bread had a wonderful flavor and nice, crunchy crust, and the dough did rise during the 2 hour rising period, when I baked it, it pretty much stayed the same shape and size as when I put it in the oven. Can anyone tell me what I did wrong??? This was my very first attempt at making bread at home so any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you! Nanette
jeff said...
January 9, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Nanette: “Wheat Gluten Flour” is probably the right stuff. Did you do the full rise time we recommended (increase to 60-90 min if you went 40)? White or whole wheat in your recipe? Bleached or unbleached flour? Did you test your oven temp with a thermometer? Here’s one: http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Gourmet-Thermometer-Stainless-Steel%252fCopper/dp/B000HB5NA4?&camp=212361&linkCode=wey&tag=arbrinfimiada-20&creative=380725
cindy said...
January 11, 2010 at 8:27 am
Hi! I made the master recipe for whole wheat bread. Thank you for posting it so we could try before buying. I have some concerns about the first loaves before making more. I checked the comments and answers on your site before writing but still have questions.
When I heard artisanal bread, I expected a browned, crackly, substantial crust with a caramelized taste and springy tasty interiors with medium-sized shiny holes like the whole grain artisanal hearth breads we buy at our bakeries.
What I got was bland, though salty enough, dull-colored, thin and soft crusted, small-holed, soft like a cake rather than springy–and it staled so quickly.
We used our co-op’s bulk organic whole wheat flour, which usually is from Vermont’s Lake Champlain area, or could be Arrowhead Mills, depending on the week. I used organic bread flour, which usually comes from Vermont as well, for which I added 2 T extra water, as we had no AP flour. Used Arrowhead Mills Vital Wheat Gluten and filtered water. We did the 2 hour rise. Dough doubled and then fell slightly. We aged the dough a few days in the fridge, shaped the loaves lightly, proofed for a good 120 minutes by our wood stove (our kitchen is very cold, and the first 30 minutes were in there). The dough spread slightly but did not rise noticeably when proofed, which is why we went to 2 hours with it. My oven is definitely working well. We used the preheated pizza stone, the broiler pan with hot water, brushed the crust with water. We got some oven rise on the loaves in that they rose at the bottom and sides, and the slashing marks spread out, but we wanted a more dramatic rise, more crust action, more spring to the crumb!
How should these whole grain loaves taste and feel?
Thanks so much,
Cindy
jeff said...
January 11, 2010 at 9:27 am
Cindy: Loaves high in whole grain are difficult to get a crackly crust because of the oil in wheat germ. I’ve had my best results with alternative steam methods, like these: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552, http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=566, or http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=510. See what you think of those. And I’d bet most of the artisan loaves in the store you reference are partly white flour, which it sounds like you don’t want to do.
About a zingier taste: store this dough for longer and you’ll be much happier with the taste. The loaves you make on day two don’t have much sourdough characteristic yet. Stagger your batches so you always have a four-day old batch to work with. At least that level of aging. Fermentation by-products also help prevent rapid staling.
But most importantly, you are using a 100% WW approach, so you should use a different recipe; see page 79 of the new book. What you did will yield too dry of a dough for our method to work well. And just to see how it’s supposed to come out, try a batch with commercial WW flour, that’s what we tested with because it’s what most of our readers will have. The result should be moister, have more flavor, and rise nicely. But expect less proofing-rise from our method, and proportionally more oven-spring. Jeff
When done with the right recipe and flour, I think you’ll find that the taste and feel
cindy said...
January 11, 2010 at 10:16 am
Jeff, thanks for writing so quickly and the reinforcement about less proofing rise, more oven spring. To clarify my muddled email: I made the breads with your white and wheat flour ratio of 1/3 white, 2/3 wheat, NOT 100% whole wheat. The dough was moist just as your photos illustrate. Also, the whole wheat was commercial, pre-ground–it is just from New England, if that makes a difference.
The second baking, when the dough was 5 days old instead of 3, is cooling on the counter right now and I’ll you all know how it came out! And I’ll try the all-white to see what those are like. Thanks for the tips on 100% whole wheat as I’ll try that another time.
Jessica said...
January 16, 2010 at 3:19 pm
I have to 2nd the suggestion posted someplace, especially for those mixing by hand, to mix up the dry ingredients in a bowl and then add that to the wet ingredients in the storage container.
I had another question though, especially about the master recipes. I often want to bake bread at the same time I’m cooking other items. Tips on this would be appreciated as it does change the moisture content…. and also I’d love to know suggestions for recipes that work best at 350 degrees. I don’t have a 2nd oven but I have been known too cook a few things in the toaster oven so I could reserve the oven to finish my breads, lol. THANKS!
Alex said...
January 17, 2010 at 4:22 am
Hi,
I’m writing to you from Australia. I have tried your white master recipe, which was great. My husband said it was the best bread I have made so far. Then I mixed up this ww master recipe and although I do keep it in a covered container (not sealed) in the fridge, I seem to have a little problem with the dough skinning. The first time I baked with this batch (it was roughly 24 hours old) I just ignored it and ended up with really dense areas where the skin ended up. in the loaf Seeing that you tuck it under while shaping, there was a dense “line” running through my loaf. But the taste was good and my husband loved it, too.
Now the dough is about a week old and has a bit of a sourdough smell to it, which I love. But the skin is even dryer. still relatively easy to form, though. I am giving it an overnight rest in the fridge now, covered with cling wrap.
I also found that the dough didn’t stretch like in your pictures but just sort of snapped off. I am using an organic ww flour. I havee never heard of white wholewheat. What is that???
The bread had a adequate crumb, wasn’t as dense as I had feared and great flavour.
Once I finish this lot of flour, I will purchase ww bread flour (strong flour). Do you think that will give me more stretch?
What temperature do you bake the bread to? I’m pretty hopeless with the knock and listen method, so I prefer using a thermometre.
I have ordered you new book and can’t wait for it to arrive. I really want my children growing up knowing bread is more than just the spongy stuff most people buy at the supermarket. I grew up in Germany where we were surrounded by a huge variety of what call “real bread”. I miss it. Well, i did until I started baking myself.
Thanks so much in advance.
jeff said...
January 17, 2010 at 7:17 am
Jessica: You can bake bread in the oven with other stuff, and the steam isn’t a problem. In fact, for our crisp-crusted breads, we ask you to bake with steam. Usually the steam dissipates in the first 10 minutes or so– this means that your crust may not firm up as nicely as you’d like, but it’s not a huge big deal.
All the sweet breads, and anything high in eggs (challah, brioche) bake at 350. You can bake lean breads @350 too, but they won’t develop a firm crust and will take longer to bake. J
jeff said...
January 17, 2010 at 7:35 am
Alex: Glad the bread’s working for you. Sounds like the dry environment of the fridge is getting to your stored dough. You can prevent this by limiting venting to the container– just a crack open the first 48 hours, then you can snap it shut. And if you transfer to smaller containers as you use it up, you minimize the “head space” and that should also help. If you really need to, drape a piece of plastic wrap over the dough surface and that should handle it.
About dough texture and consistency, sounds like the flours you’re getting absorb water differently from ours in the US and that can be a challenge. The AP we use is about 10% protein, see if you can match that. Otherwise look at our videos at http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63 and adjust the water so the dough looks like that.
The white whole wheat discussion is on page 10 of the new book, also see http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/king-arthur-white-whole-wheat-flour-5-lb
Jeff
Sandra said...
January 18, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Hi,
1. Can I use whole wheat bread flour in the whole grain master recipe? If so, do I use the same amounts?
2. Do I need to bring refrigerated whole wheat flour to room temperature before I use it in a recipe?
Thank you.
Ethan said...
January 18, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Thank you, this bread was really great!
jeff said...
January 18, 2010 at 10:26 pm
Sandra: You may need a little more water; scale up the water so the result has the consistency you see in our videos, at http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63. Assuming you are starting with lukewarm water, I don’t think it’s going to matter that you’re starting with cold flour. It may take a little longer to fully rise since the starting temperature is a touch low. Jeff
Alex said...
January 19, 2010 at 5:03 am
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for your reply. I think the white flour I used had about 9% protein. Not sure about the ww. I will try and find one that is closer to 10%.
On an Australian web-store that I sometimes order flour from, they state that American flour is often blended with diastatic malt at the mill. This is not the case in Australia. Apparently this is why quite often American recipes don’t work with our flours. Should I add diastatic malt?
By the way, after I rested the loaf (made with the heavily skinned dough) in the fridge over night, covered with cling wrap, the bread turned out fantastic. The long rest must have somehow re-hydrated the dry areas. No dense line through the bread. And my husband loooved it (that’s saying something as he is a little reluctant to give up his white supermarket sandwich bread).
Thanks again.
Alex
zoe said...
January 19, 2010 at 7:08 am
Hi Alex,
How fascinating about the malt, do you remember where you read it? I’d love to see that. Adding a couple of tablespoons of the malt certainly won’t hurt and could be an interesting experiment.
I love the bread vs cheesecake description! LOL, Zoë
Sandra said...
January 19, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Thanks Jeff. I made a batch of the dough yesterday and baked a loaf of bread – delicious!
One more quick question – can the Whole Grain Master Recipe be used as pizza dough – if so, how long and what temperature to cook? Does the same method apply – how about baking in a cast-iron pan??? Thanks!
Alex said...
January 19, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Zoe,
here are 2 links: http://www.basicingredients.com.au/brero.html
http://www.basicingredients.com.au/DiastaticMalt.html
Beth said...
January 19, 2010 at 6:32 pm
Hi there! I’ve been LOVING the HBin5 book and have already made a few recipes. I’m trying out one from Artisan Bread tonight. I wanted to let you know, though, that I time lapse photographed some of the bread rising when I made the HB recipes. Not super high production value, but kind of fun to watch bread rise in 12 seconds. You can see the videos at: http://wp.me/pI6Ms-9M.
Thanks for an amazing book!
jeff said...
January 19, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Sandra: Absolutely, all in the new book, same dough is great in pizza http://tinyurl.com/pe8yr9. I do my pizzas at 550 degrees F, for about 10 minutes (watch carefully if you’re not sure of oven temp). Pizza does well on a stone or on cast-iron. Or did you mean loaf breads inside cast iron pans, covered: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552
jeff said...
January 19, 2010 at 8:49 pm
Beth: That was some fun cinema! Thanks for sharing it… Jeff
Scott Smith said...
January 26, 2010 at 10:01 am
Love the new WW Master Recipe. I am adding 1 cup of Rye to get the taste I loved with the European Peasant Bread.
2 Questions.
1.) I am having problems with excessive spread in the rising. Leads to Flat bread. Is this too much water?
2.) Anybody know where I can find a non-stick “medium” bread loaf pan? Maybe 7 ‘ by 4″?
Thanks!!
zoe said...
January 26, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Hi Scott,
Rye flour has very little gluten and so it is causing your bread to spread. You can try adding more Vital Wheat Gluten to the mix to give it more structure.
This is the only size I know of that is smaller than the standard 8 1/2 x 4″ loaf pan: http://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Metallic-Professional-Mini-Loaf/dp/B0000VLH06/ref=pd_bxgy_k_img_b
Thanks, Zoë
Bev said...
January 27, 2010 at 8:50 am
I made your bagel recipe using the maser recipe dough but had trouble with the raisins falling out. After you roll out the dough and put the cinnamon, sugar and raisins on it can you just roll it up and cook it like a loaf? How long should you cook it.
Thanks
zoe said...
January 27, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Hi Bev,
Yes, it is wonderful to make it into raisin bread. Here is a post we did about that: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=337 Let the dough rest for about 1 1/2 hours and bake it for about 45 minutes.
Thanks, Zoë
Bev said...
January 27, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Should I cook it in a loaf pan or on the pizza wheel?
jeff said...
January 27, 2010 at 7:24 pm
Bev: As in the post Zoe referenced, we did that one in a loaf pan, but it would work fine as a free form loaf on a pizza peel. Traditionally, it’s the loaf pan though. Either one’s going to be delicious. Jeff
Amanda said...
January 28, 2010 at 6:36 am
Received ABin5 for Christmas and we haven’t bought a loaf of bread since – no kidding. It’s been an amazing journey. We will soon order your HBin5 book. Just tried the master recipe from this post last night but I didn’t refrigerate the dough before baking the loaf. What happened was that the loaf simply spread out on the parchment paper and didn’t rise in the oven. It still tasted good, but turned out more like a thick flat bread. Any suggestions for next time?
I suspect that it might have been too wet and that the flour needed more time to absorb the moisture to be able to hold shape. I did use appropriate flour, followed the directions, etc. I don’t imagine this recipe is meant for a loaf pan is it?
I imagine you have quite a following in Canada as well and I thought I’d point out that we have an amazing flour mill located in New Brunswick that ships across the country. Amazing products come out of this operation. I count my lucky stars that it’s located in my home province:
http://www.speervilleflourmill.ca/
Thanks for everything!
Amanda
zoe said...
January 28, 2010 at 11:07 am
Hi Amanda,
Yes, what you describe is pretty typical for dough that has not had an overnight in the refrigerator. Let me know if the dough keeps its shape better once it has been chilled for several hours. If not, then your dough may just be too wet and you will want to add a bit of flour to the mix.
Thank you and we’re so glad you are enjoying so much fresh bread! Zoë
Nicola said...
January 31, 2010 at 6:56 pm
I have just made my first wholemeal loaf. I used whey (leftover from making yoghurt), which I have done in the past with other bread recipes. I used the same volume of whey as the recipe said for water. The bread is delicious and has a great crust but is very dense. It had risen a lot in the fridge, but didn’t rise before or during baking. I am keen to continue to use whey and wonder if I should add more yeast? or do you have another suggestion?
jeff said...
January 31, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Nicola: I’m guessing that more yeast will not solve the problem; you are getting a good intial rise. I haven’t tried baking with whey, so I can’ t say for certain… but, if you’re water-based breads in similar recipes are fine, then the whey is the problem. If so, could try cutting down to a mixture of whey and water and see how that does.
Also, take a look at the dense bread FAQ on that tab, above. Jeff
Al said...
February 12, 2010 at 7:01 pm
Jeff and Zoe:
Great job with your three books – I just stumbled across your website while surfing for cool tools. I have a question: What is the nutritional information for a 1lb loaf of bread?
Thanks!
jeff said...
February 12, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Al: We don’t have formal nutrition calculations, but check the FAQs page (above) for a roundabout way to get to it. Jeff
Alex said...
February 20, 2010 at 3:59 am
Hi, it’s me again. I just wanted to let you know that I never had that skinning problem on the refrigerated dough again. I have made it twice since and it was fine for up to 2 weeks.
I have also finally received my HBin5 book. The vendor had accidentally sent me a book about cupcakes instead – not so healthy Well, they let me keep it and sent the HBin5, so now I have both. Not that I should be eating any cupcakes, trying to lose the baby fat… Anyway, I now realise I probably should have bought your ABin5 instead or both as I love the idea of European peasant bread… Might have to order that one. I believe it has a few rye recipes in it? I loooove rye breads (grew up in southern Germany where rye sourdough is very common. Not sure if you have heard of Pfister bread (Hofpfisterei), but it is divine, relativley fine crumb, moist but not too heavy).
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I’m looking forward to trying some of the recipes in your book when I get back from my German holiday where I’m going to stuff myself with rye bread and pretzels (I come from the pretzel capital of Stuttgart). I haven’t bought a loaf of bread all year
The only downside is that with such a relatively large batch, I have to wait too long before I can try out a new recipe, so I’ve been halving your recipes.
Oh, one thing about HBin5, I would have loved to see more pictures. Especially pictures of the bread sliced open to see the crumb to help me decide on which recipe to try and so i can see what I’m shooting for. But fortunately you have lots of photos on this website.
jeff said...
February 20, 2010 at 6:51 am
Alex: Others have mentioned about the photos. Our publisher sets the limit on photos, and though there are twice as many in HBin5, people have asked for more. Which is why there are hundreds on this website.
The other thing is that the website allows us to do video, which we’ve just started to do (see http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1632).
So proud that you’re liking our stuff– Germany has about the best in the world, especially the whole-grain stuff. Thanks, Alex.
Jeff
elana said...
February 21, 2010 at 1:21 pm
hi jeff and zoe! i tried the master recipe last week (just got the book) and i loved it. i made the whole wheat master recipe 2 days ago and i just went to pull the dough out to make tonight. my dough is definitely not stretchy. when i pulled some out, it came out in a big clump…so sad. any idea what i’m doing wrong? the dough had a really nice rise out on the counter and i can see lots of holes through the side of the bowl. i used the scoop and sweep method (arrowhead mills organic ww flour and king arthur unbleached white flour). everything seemed to go fine until there was no stretchiness! how can i fix that? do i need to fix that? thanks!
zoe said...
February 21, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Hi Elana,
Does your dough seem like it is drier than what we should in the videos? If so, you can add more water and let it sit for a while while the flour absorbs the additional water. I think that will result in a dough with more stretch.
If your dough seems wet, but just doesn’t have the stretch then maybe you need to add more vital wheat gluten to the next batch of dough. The Arrowhead Mill flour is ground more coarsely than many other brands and therefore doesn’t produce the same gluten strength.
I hope that helps. Thanks, Zoë
elana said...
February 21, 2010 at 3:19 pm
thanks, zoe! it seems a little drier but definitely less stretchy. i’m baking a batch now so i guess we’ll see! where would the baked difference be…the taste, the texture or something else?
if it’s just dry, can i add some water now even though i made the dough a couple of days ago?
jeff said...
February 21, 2010 at 8:01 pm
Elana: You may be able to get away with that, worth a try. Generally, we try not to handle the dough much once it’s aged a bit; you can knock the gas out and end up with something dense.
Another approach I’ve used is to float some water on the surface and wait for it to absorb, usually over 12 to 24 hours. This has sometimes worked, sometimes not. Jeff
elana said...
February 21, 2010 at 8:39 pm
thanks jeff. it must have come out okay since we finished the loaf!
my whole wheat dough is definitely significantly less sticky than the dough i made with the original master recipe (that was too sticky, i think). it was much easier to shape and spread out a lot less. do you think i should still add more water when i make the recipe the next time? it’s hard to tell if my original recipe was too sticky and this one was too dry or if this one was right!
zoe said...
February 22, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Hi Elana,
If you loved the bread and it was nice to work with I’d leave it alone. If you think it was a touch dry or dense then perhaps add a little bit more water.
Thanks, Zoë
Adriana said...
February 22, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Since people are asking for nutrition info and I was curious myself, I went ahead and figured out what the data was for this recipe. I’m counting it as 32 slices of bread in the entire recipe, and this is per slice:
102 calories
0.5 g fat
0g saturated fat
0g trans fat
220mg sodium
19g total carbohydrate
2.5g dietary fiber
0g sugars
5g protein
vitamin A 0% vitamin C 0%
calcium 1% iron 7%
Hope this is useful to you all!
Adriana
jeff said...
February 22, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Re: Adriana’s post. We haven’t checked the math here, so can’t vouch for these numbers. Can also use the USDA tool you’ll find through our FAQs page. Jeff
elana said...
February 23, 2010 at 3:04 pm
wasn’t sure where to ask this, but i just finally read through your first book and i had a question (by the way, thank you for answering all my questions!) about the 100% whole wheat sandwich bread: i have a 4 year old who is allergic to milk. any thoughts on whether i can substitute rice milk for regular milk in the recipe? do you just heat the milk on the stove to warm it up?
last general question: i’ve been using parchment paper in place of cornmeal on the master recipe. can i use parchment paper in place of cornmeal or flour in all the recipes in the book?
jeff said...
February 23, 2010 at 8:24 pm
Elana: In general, our recipes are very forgiving when you swap one liquid for another. I can’t think of any reason why this won’t work, unless rice milk develops off-flavors when baked into food. You’ll have to experiment.
Parchment paper can be used anywhere cornmeal or flour lining is used, yes. Jeff
Ashley said...
February 28, 2010 at 12:39 am
This is a great new experiment that I am trying here at 1:35am! (I’m a 3rd shift paramedic – on days off, all I do is bake through the night!)
I just made the ww master recipe – I’ve been searching and searching for a good ww recipe.
Bread is becoming my new frontier for baking – not too familiar with it yet to play around with recipes, just trying to find a few good, solid base recipes to branch out from, ya know?
Just one question:
Is there a minimum amount of time that I should refridgerate this batch before I bake my first loaf with it?
Thanks in advance,
Ashley
zoe said...
February 28, 2010 at 11:31 am
Hi Ashley,
You sound like Jeff and how he got started with this whole bread baking endeavor!
I’d allow the dough to chill for at least 3-5 hours before using it. This will allow it to firm up enough to make handling it easier. If it is flavor you are going for then let it sit for at least 24 hours to allow some fermentation to happen.
Thanks! Zoë
Anke said...
March 3, 2010 at 10:45 am
I have two questions:
- I’m trying to make a cranberry pecan multigrain bread like the one Chabaso Bakery sells (http://www.chabaso.com/index.php?page=cranberry-pecan-multi-grain). Which one of your recipes would work the closest (I just bought your Healthy Bread book)?
- I was going to try the Oatmeal Date & Walnut recipe and was wondering whether that recipe would work if backed free form rather than a loaf pan?
Thanks,
Anke
Jill said...
March 3, 2010 at 4:37 pm
Just last week, looking for a bread recipe, I came across your videos on Youtube, then found your website.
Made my first batch of dough and have baked several loaves. Oh, this is GOOD STUFF!
Definitely have to buy the Healthy version book as I do mill my own grains.
Jill
jeff said...
March 3, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Anke: Oatmeal Date/Raisin can certainly be baked freeform and that would be close to what you’re looking for. But it has oatmeal in it. Whatever you do from HBin5, it’s going to have more whole grain in it than what I’m seeing at that website– bet that’s mostly white flour by the look of it.
So expect a different result, though delicious. Jeff
jeff said...
March 3, 2010 at 6:20 pm
Jill: Be sure to read about my experience with fresh-milled wheat, look under our FAQs tab. Note that in the case of the stuff I used (someone else freshly milled it for me), it measured and baked up just like commercial whole wheat. Other readers have written in to say that coarser-ground WW doesn’t behave that way and they needed to adjust the water based on the appearance of the dough. See our videos to see how wet/dry the dough should look, and check back with us if you have trouble.
Bottom line– commercial flours, uniformly ground, work more predictably because they’re always the same. Not so for fresh-ground stuff. But I did think it was delicious. Jeff
Proof Reader said...
March 6, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Zoe,
You may want to revise your comment to Ashley on Feb. 28, 2010. I have enjoyed reading the posts and appreciate the laugh:)
zoe said...
March 6, 2010 at 9:03 pm
OMG Proof Reader,
My only hope is that you got to that before Ashley, otherwise she may never come back!? That will make me laugh for a very long time! The problem with answering questions late at night!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Zoë
Jenn said...
March 7, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Hi, just found your website today and baked my first loaf!
The taste and texture were wonderful, though it didn’t rise much during baking (my fault, I forgot to dust my hands when tearing off a chunk, forgot to dust the plastic during the last rising, and didn’t have a serrated knife).
I baked it in my dutch oven : 15 min @ 500F (covered) + 10 min @ 450 (uncovered), and it was perfect.
After reading through all (well, most) of these comments, I don’t recall anybody asking what is the best way to store the baked bread?
Thanks for sharing this technique and recipe… off I go to buy the book!
zoe said...
March 7, 2010 at 10:45 pm
Hi Jenn,
Wow, you found us today and already baked a loaf! That is fantastic.
We generally suggest just placing the cut side of the loaf down on the cutting board and not covering it. This will prevent the crust from getting soggy. The loaf will last about 24 hours this way, some say longer!
Thanks, Zoë
Kris said...
April 6, 2010 at 11:44 am
I made your artisan whole wheat sandwich bread and it didn’t rise, and is hard. What did I do wrong?
Thanks
jeff said...
April 6, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Kris: We need more information— which book are you working from, there are whole grain sandwich breads in both? Did you use vital wheat gluten? Common problems can be found by clicking on our FAQs page above. Typical problems:
1. Are you using the wrong measuring method? Must use scoop and sweep (not spoon-and-sweep).
2. You have to use unbleached all-purpose flour where white flour is called for (not bleached)
3. Consider a longer rest time, first book specifies shorter times than 2nd and many people prefer the longer rest time
Jeff
MousE said...
April 17, 2010 at 11:40 am
Hello,
I tried this recipe and followed the instructions precisely, but must add that I am not sure what you mean by vital wheat gluten. I did use wheat gluten. I couldn’t find any labelled “vital.”
It didn’t turn out very well at all. The yeast was active, but perhaps the climate here in the Pacific Northwest is too cool and humid for a 2 hr rise? Should I try it with an overnight rise instead? I was left with gloop that did not spring at all in the oven.
I should also add I have had success with the standard white flour recipe, but the housemate prefers wholegrain, and really it is better for you….
Any advice? I did use unbleached organic white and fresh organic whole wheat flours. The yeast is good, I used the scoop and sweep. Thanks for your time!
zoe said...
April 17, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Hi MousE,
I think the issue is the fresh ground flour that you are using. It is tasty wonderful stuff, but tends to be a coarser grind and therefore behaves differently in our recipes. Some people who are baking with this type of flour have had better success when they added a couple of extra tablespoons of wheat gluten flour.
I hope this helps! Enjoy, Zoë
MousE said...
April 19, 2010 at 4:19 pm
thank you for responding, Zoe. I have mixed up another batch, altering it very slightly – 5 cups ww and 2 1/2 cups unbleached, and added the extra gluten as you suggested. It did mix drier, and looks more like the pcture above. I’m going to let it sit out overnight, as it is cool and damp here, and will refrdgerate it for the day tomorrow. Will let you know how it goes! Thanks again, great book BTW.
zoe said...
April 19, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Great Mouse,
Keep us posted!
Thanks, Zoë
MousE said...
April 21, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Well, I am very disappointed, again it took forever to double in size – more than 10 hrs -and I tested the yeast first – and no oven spring at all. I ended up with a very flat loaf that was too yeasty and too salty; neither of us liked it… As I said, I know the unbleached flour I am using is fine as I have had good results before making the white artisan bread. And I made banana bread with the whole wheat flour, and it was heavy but fine with a good rise. For some reason I just can’t get this to work at all. Suggestions? I really appreciate it!
MousE said...
April 21, 2010 at 5:51 pm
ps
It must be the whole wheat flour I am using; have whole wheate Red Fife. Is it just too hard a flour? Is there a specific type of whole wheat I should use?
zoe said...
April 21, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Hi MousE,
All of our recipes are tested with Gold Medal flour and I would recommend you try a batch with that flour and see if you are still having issues.
Thank you, Zoë
MousE said...
April 23, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I will see if I can find some. Thanks very much!
Andy said...
May 12, 2010 at 12:24 pm
I posted about my problems with very wet dough back in December, and finally found time to get back here for an update. Unfortunately, I still haven’t had much luck with the master recipe. I tried adding 2 more TBSP of vital wheat gluten to my next batch, but it was only mildly better. I also tried the banana bread and it was pretty wet too. The loaf was very dense and felt like a brick. I scanned through the postings here since December and it looks like I’m the only one having these problems. It must the WW flour up here in Canada or something. I’ve looked at a few other brands, but they all have the same protein content, and I honestly can’t afford premium or organic flours.
Have you heard of any other people with the same problems?
Thanks,
Andy
zoe said...
May 12, 2010 at 11:45 pm
Hi Andy,
Are you measuring your flour with the scoop and sweep method? If you are spooning the flour into the measuring cup you will end up with a very wet dough.
Thanks, Zoë
Andy said...
June 2, 2010 at 10:31 am
I am weighing all of the ingredients, which I thought was the most accurate way to do it. I have a done it several times and confirmed that my measurements are accurate and the same as the metric ones given in the book.
jeff said...
June 2, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Andy: I’m a big believer in weights, but most U.S. users still use volumes. I posted on weights a while ago: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=392
Honestly, I’m thinking that you should just use more flour until the dough looks like what we get in our videos (click on the tab above). No accounting for why flours are different, but I think you’ll be happy if you adjust the quantity.
Jeff
Xan said...
June 23, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Hi! I’m enjoying my HB5 even though I’ve only tried one loaf so far.
I’m sure I read somewhere in there that you could shape the loaf, and return it to the ‘fridge for 8 hours, then just take it out to rest while the oven heats, and bake as normal. Did I make that up? I can’t find it now.
Thanks!
Xan
zoe said...
June 24, 2010 at 12:55 am
Hi Xan,
That is absolutely correct. It is in the tips and technique chapter of the book. I am traveling in Europe and didn’t bring a copy of the book, so I can’t give you the exact page number.
Enjoy, Zoe
Lilly said...
July 25, 2010 at 4:36 pm
I am so very excited to purchase the book and get started. We have a wheat grinder and I just started baking bread at home, but I am looking forward to these recipes and methods. Maybe this question was already asked, but do you have high altitude suggestions/directions in the book?
Thanks!
zoe said...
July 25, 2010 at 9:22 pm
Hi Lilly,
So glad you will be trying out our recipes. It does seem that most people have better results with the recipes from HBin5 when they increase the amount of vital wheat gluten when using freshly ground wheat. The courser flour tends not to absorb as much water or develop the same elasticity, so adding a tablespoon or two more VWG seems to help.
Here is a post and discussion about high altitude baking. I suggest you read the comments from others baking in the same environment. http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144
Thanks and enjoy! Zoë
LaJuana said...
October 26, 2009 at 2:16 pm
I have the Vital Wheat Gluten and a rarity around here, an empty container, just baked my last buttermilk bread today and hadn’t mixed the next batch up so here I go! Thanks for posting this. You two are the BEST! I believe good things will always be along your paths!