Katie @ goodLife {eats} said...
February 16, 2010 at 5:13 pm

Always helpful to see how the pro does it. Thanks for sharing!!

Katrina said...
February 16, 2010 at 6:59 pm

I love baking bread!!! (My family loves it, too.) I usually bake the 100% whole wheat with olive oil.
I read that it’s good for pizza dough, but the crust doesn’t crisp up too well, even with the pizza stone. Is there a tip I’ve missed?

Laura @ Rejoicing Evermore said...
February 16, 2010 at 7:07 pm

Thanks for the tip! I have a question though…

Even though I follow the recipe exactly, my dough is MUCH stickier and moist than that in the video. I don’t live at a high altitude, so… I guess it’s not really a question but yet it is.

Vanessa said...
February 16, 2010 at 8:04 pm

Thanks I threw out my wheat dough because it felt different and I thought I had messed it up. Now I see from this video I had the right consistency after all. A lesson learned.

zoe said...
February 16, 2010 at 11:15 pm

Hi Katrina,

Because of the oil in the whole wheat flour and the addition of olive oil in the dough it will never get as crisp as a crust made with white flour, but you can try rolling it very thin and making sure your oven is preheated with a stone for about 30+ minutes.

Thanks, Zoë

zoe said...
February 16, 2010 at 11:19 pm

Hi Laura,

Are you trying to shape the loaf when the dough is fresh and not yet refrigerated? This will result in a much stickier dough.

If you are waiting until it is chilled and still too sticky then it may be how you are measuring the flour? Be sure to use the scoop and sweep method, rather than spooning the flour into the measuring cup. This is a common cause of too wet dough.

Let me know if either of these sound right. If not, we can figure out something else. Zoë

Laura @ Rejoicing Evermore said...
February 16, 2010 at 11:42 pm

Thanks Zoe,
I have tried it both ways, before and after refrigeration and mine is still very sticky.

I do you 100% fresh ground whole wheat, would that make the difference? If so what should I do to correct it?

Laura @ Rejoicing Evermore said...
February 16, 2010 at 11:43 pm

*oops that was supposed to be I do use 100% whole wheat, fresh ground.

Kit said...
February 17, 2010 at 6:44 am

That video was so helpful, b/c it showed me that my dough really is too wet. Even following the recipe by weight, and even using store-bought flour (and Laura, I do find that grinding my own makes it even wetter), my dough is too wet to hold a shape. I use ionized water from an Enagic Kangen machine, and I suspect this is part of my problem. (Ionizing supposedly makes water “wetter.”) This last batch I tried cutting back on the water by about 1/3 cup, and while the dough is still in the fridge and has yet to be shaped, it sure looks a lot more like the pictures.

zoe said...
February 17, 2010 at 10:12 am

Hi Laura,

From what I’ve been hearing from people the dough made with fresh ground flour, unless very finely ground, requires a bit more vital wheat gluten than commercially ground flour. Try adding a few more tablespoons to the next batch and see if that makes a difference. It will provide the dough with a little more elasticity.

Thanks, Zoë

zoe said...
February 17, 2010 at 10:16 am

Hi Kit,

So glad you found the video to be helpful. I have never heard of wetter water, I have to do some research on this!

Thanks, Zoë

Becky said...
February 17, 2010 at 1:48 pm

I need help. I have tried to make this bread several times, but can’t get those beautiful strands from the gluten. My dough comes out in clumps, no strands at all. I use fresh ground whole wheat instead of store bought wheat flour, but everything else I use is according to the recipe. Help.

Jenny said...
February 17, 2010 at 2:54 pm

Can you please make videos of your other great techniques such as…pizza rolling, challah breads, etc? I am a visual learner and it would help if I felt that I was there learning with you….many blessings!

Helen in CA said...
February 17, 2010 at 3:53 pm

As for not getting those strands of lovely gluten, someone on another thread suggested that their refrigerated bread was TOO COLD.

So, it might be worth experiementing w/ letting the dough sit out a bit (warming a tad) before shaping.

Haven’t finished my experimentation here (so can’t report my actual experience). I’ve turned my frig up a tad (I keep it quite cold).

Another avenue we don’t tend to think of.

Amanda said...
February 17, 2010 at 4:00 pm

Can anyone help me figure out why my stone just broke in half?

Just got the book yesterday, tonight was my second time baking the basic recipe.

I have (had!) a pampered chef round pizza stone, and yes I preheated it in the oven and followed the directions for placing 1 cup of water in a pan at the bottom of the oven. About 15 minutes into baking I heard a loud pop and my stone is now in 2 pieces.

Is this a defective stone (I’ve used it for a few years and never had a problem) or what did I do wrong?

jeff said...
February 17, 2010 at 5:45 pm

Becky: All bets are off when using non-commercial flour. My best guess (assuming you are using the vital wheat gluten as we specify) is to make it wetter; fresh-ground whole grain flours absorb water unpredictably compared with commercial stuff, which is extremely fine-ground. Sometimes it works just like commercial WW, other stuff just doesn’t. Sounds like yours will need adjusting.

One other possibility– you may be happier if the dough’s a little warmer– it becomes more elastic and pliant at higher temps. Some refrigerators are running to cold, so that’s one possibility. The other thing is you can warm it a bit at room temp before cutting off and shaping. Jeff

jeff said...
February 17, 2010 at 5:50 pm

Jenny: The fun and interesting part about that little experiment was that people found it super-useful, yet it was about half the work for me to do it compared to the photo essays we usually do.

So, bottom line, there will be more of these coming…

Jeff

jeff said...
February 17, 2010 at 5:57 pm

Helen: That’s definitely in the mix, I need to edit my comment to the person who asked that. Thank you! Jeff

jeff said...
February 17, 2010 at 6:06 pm

Amanda: We’ve found that stones do not last forever, though my first one lasted 11 years of frequent baking. It seems clear that the 1/2-inch thick ones are very durable, and the 1/4-inch thick stones are much less so.

Incidentally, you can usually use the broken stone pieces to make breads, all depends on how the crack is shaped and what the resultant pieces look like.

Alternatives to the breakable stones include the newer cast-iron “stones,” or even just a cast-iron skillet, which we’ve found work quite nicely. Or a Dutch Oven http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552 or a cloche http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=566

My guess is the cloches, being ceramic, are eventually going to break like the stones. Iron, certainly not. Jeff

Frank said...
February 18, 2010 at 7:54 am

did you say “let it sit for about NINETY minutes”? in you first book, i am pretty sure you say twenty. i’m wondering if i’ve not been letting my dough sit long enough!

Sara said...
February 18, 2010 at 7:55 am

I find that my refrigerated dough is too wet to form the gluten cloak. I weighed all my ingredients inlcuding the flour. What am I doing wrong?

Leslie said...
February 18, 2010 at 8:50 am

I just bought your wonderful Healthy Breads book and I’ve purchased a bread stone, etc., and am ready to try to make pizza. I have two questions for you:
1: When taking the dough out of the frig, is there a resting or rising period before you start to shape it as there is with bread, or do you just begin to shape it?
2. In the recipe, it says to flour the peel and start to shape the dough. My question is, is this when you put the cornmeal on the peel, or if using parchment paper, is this when I lay it over the peel?
My husband thinks I crazy, but I’m so excited to begin, and I did watch your video on how to prepare dough and my intimidation factor went down to zero. I thought, gee, I can do that! Love you guys!
Leslie

zoe said...
February 18, 2010 at 11:07 am

Hi Frank,

The boule Jeff made in this video is the whole wheat master recipe from HBin5 (second book). The only breads that would rest for 20 minutes are baguettes and some of the flatbreads made with all white flour. The boule from our first book rests for at least 40 minutes, but can go longer for a more open crumb. This post may be helpful: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1616

Thanks, Zoë

zoe said...
February 18, 2010 at 11:09 am

Hi Sara,

What kind of flour are you using? Some of the flours that are coarse ground result in a wetter dough. Adding another 2-3 tablespoons of vital wheat gluten often helps with this type of flour.

Thanks, Zoë

zoe said...
February 18, 2010 at 11:13 am

Hi Leslie,

So glad you are going to make pizza! The best thing about pizzas and flatbreads is that there is no waiting for it to rest, just roll it out, top it and bake. I usually roll the dough out on the counter using enough flour to prevent it from sticking to the counter. Check it as you are rolling to make sure it doesn’t stick. Once it is as thin as you would like then transfer it to the pizza peel that is either covered in a skim of flour or a sheet of parchment.

Hope that helps, Zoë

Double Dipped Life said...
February 18, 2010 at 11:28 am

Thank you SO much for this video!!! I’m pleased to see that I was doing it correctly!

Double Dipped Life said...
February 18, 2010 at 11:33 am

Okay- question- the last batch of dough I made developed hard, dried out spots on top of it withing just a few days. Is this because the lid wasn’t on enough? Or because I didn’t mix it well enough? thnaks!

Jennifer said...
February 18, 2010 at 1:26 pm

A video clip is worth a thousand words! I had posed the question to the previous posting about how to “cloak” because I didn’t think I was doing it correctly. This video showed me exactly how–and showed me that I was indeed trying too hard before. It’s really so easy. Thank you! P.S. My Anadama bread just turned out great. Now I’ve got a challah mix rising for a fresh loaf tomorrow…

jeff said...
February 18, 2010 at 8:28 pm

DD Life: Sounds like it’s a problem with too much air circulation from outside the container, as you suggest, that the lid wasn’ t on enough. Try leaving just a crack open. Given that you don’t describe powdery dry spots, I’m guessing that it’s not a problem with inadequate mixing. Jeff

jeff said...
February 18, 2010 at 8:30 pm

Jennifer: That is really good news about the Anadama. It’s a little loose, and has to be cloaked just so, or it’s pretty flat. Although that tastes fine, and my guess is that the original was a flatbread. Jeff

Todd said...
February 19, 2010 at 7:29 am

What brand of peel is that you are using?

Frank said...
February 19, 2010 at 7:30 am

thank you, zoe! i was going from memory… a refresher is definitely appreciated!

kaztx said...
February 19, 2010 at 8:06 am

I recently started making bread again using my bread machine to rise then hand shaping and baking. I’d gotten pretty good at doing this with 50-100% whole wheat recipes. I know what those more traditional doughs should feel like but understand that your doughs are supposed to be wetter. But how wet is too wet? My first attempts at following the Healthy Bread recipes have resulted in very wet doughs with low rise. Based on the video I think the dough might be too wet. It’s sticky and gloppy after first mixing (like the video) but not smooth and satiny after refrig rising (unlike the video). This has been true for 100% whole wheat, flax bread and WW with olive oil. The bread tastes good (especially the olive oil one) but is short and dense.

kimberly said...
February 19, 2010 at 9:49 am

This is great! I much prefer video to photos for tutorials like this…thank you! And please keep them coming!

stacyinaz said...
February 19, 2010 at 10:36 am

Hi guys…Your books have changed our life! I can’t wait for the next one, as i love making the pitas and other flat bread from your first book….

I learned an mastered the first book last year, but I am almost ready to shelve “healthy” bread…I need your help…I am having the most difficult time getting a rise out of my stored “healthy” bread.

I make a loaf after first rise with is beautiful, but then, the rest of my dough produces bricks. It seems to loose all its gas during refrigeration.

I am using excellent organic quality ingredients, not “overworking” the dough, etc. HELP!

Any ideas, hints or tricks?

On another note, how do you think virgin raw coconut oil would work in your recipes, since it is a solid at 75 degrees?

Bethany said...
February 19, 2010 at 12:51 pm

Is the consistency of the soft sandwich bread in HBi5 different than what is in the video?

zoe said...
February 19, 2010 at 9:11 pm

Hi Kaztx,

What kind of flour are you using? We recommend using a commercial brand of whole wheat for the first run because it tends to be a finer grind. Some of the course ground flours can result in a wetter dough. You may have to add a touch more flour to the dough.

Thanks, Zoë

zoe said...
February 19, 2010 at 9:15 pm

Hi Stacyinaz,

It sounds like the flour you are using may be a bit coarse, which will result in a dough that does not rise as well. Does your dough seem wetter than normal? With the organic flours that are not commercially ground to a fine flour you may want to use an extra dose of vital wheat gluten. About 2-3 extra tablespoons may do the trick and extend the storage of the dough.

One other thought about the dough is that your refrigerator may be cooler than normal and your dough may require a bit of extra time to rise. This may also be true if your kitchen is cool?

Thanks and we will help you get the results that you are looking for! Zoë

zoe said...
February 19, 2010 at 9:25 pm

Hi Bethany,

Yes, the doughs will have a different texture. The dough that Jeff is using is the 100% whole wheat which will be a little bit drier than the soft Sandwich loaf.

Hope that helps? Zoë

jeff said...
February 20, 2010 at 6:55 am

Todd: Sorry we took so long to get back to you. I prefer the Sassafras brand, which I loved but basically isn’t being made anymore, though it’s still technically in our Amazon store. It finally cracked after 15 years so I tried this bamboo one, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0028LKE6E?ie=UTF8&tag=arbrinfimiada-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=B0028LKE6E . That’s what’s in the picture.

Not quite as large as the Sassafras one, and a little thicker and heavier, so not quite as good. I’m looking for another that I can strongly recommend. Jeff

Branka Klinec said...
February 20, 2010 at 7:57 am

Came across an amazing i phone/pod app. It’s an easy to follow video tutorial on how to make flat breads. The breads look amazing, and after l finished making them l was very impressed!! Can hardly wait for her next video to come out.

Nancy said...
February 20, 2010 at 3:47 pm

Thanks for the video and your books. I am having so much fun baking and sharing bread with family and friends. Just mixed up my first batch of Betsy’s Seeded Bread from the Healthy Grain book. Cannot wait to bake the loaves tomorrow.

Catherine Kaikowska said...
February 20, 2010 at 4:29 pm

Thank you so much for your book and website. I never thought I would be a baker. I have for a few years now been developing simple recipes for healthy meals, trying to use more local and natural foods, but thought I was “stuck” with whatever breads or desserts would be available from the supermarket or bakery.

Because my husband has recently been told by our doctor that he needs to be careful of high glycemic and processed foods, I bought your cookbook and began experimenting. Originally, I was disappointed that most of your recipes used regular flour. However, I have based all my experiments on your 100% whole wheat recipe and have successfully made pecan rolls, herb breads, and caramelized onion rolls. My husband is a cook in his working life, and though he doesn’t bake, he is very picky about what he likes and doesn’t like. Even so, he has been extremely happy with my experiments from your book.

I am so delighted to realize that I can use whole wheat flour and successfully modify your recipes to come up with interesting and great breads and desserts.

My advice to anyone else who is trying this is to modify your expectations. Smaller loaves or mini-boules seem to work better with free-form loaves from whole wheat. And I’ve found that most things do need a bit more baking time, and adding more water into the pan for the steam.

My next experiment will be the pumpernickel bread, sizing into small loaves, one per turkey Reuben for our next supper.

Thanks so much! I am having a lot of fun, and look forward to even more as I adjust your whole wheat recipe to explore the full range of the other kinds of breads your book offers.

–Catherine

jeff said...
February 20, 2010 at 9:56 pm

Catherine: The new book, Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day, has more of the recipes that you are looking for: http://bit.ly/3wYSSN

Jeff

jeff said...
February 20, 2010 at 10:11 pm

Branka: Sorry, but this looks like a commercial link so we’ve edited it out. Can’t link to things that we can’t personally vouch for.

cory said...
February 21, 2010 at 1:41 am

Graet video i will implement this thank you i will come back more often.

Bethany said...
February 21, 2010 at 4:51 pm

Zoe — re: bread consistency … it’s good to know that the whole wheat loaf Jeff demonstrates should be “more dry” than the sandwich loaves.

By the way, I experimented this past week using applesauce instead of oil in my soft whole wheat loaves. It turned out fabulous, the texture and crumb were great, and the bread seemed to stay moist for longer. The initial dough was just a little more gooey than normal, but there was no difference in the final product. Apparently applesauce can work great as an oil substitute in more than just brownies and muffins!

Note: I was using my own home made applesauce which is simply cooked apples (skins included) and a hint of water. No extra sugar or salt … Some commercial applesauce include these and I’m sure it would factor into the baking equation.

jeff said...
February 21, 2010 at 8:07 pm

Bethany: Thanks for doing the experiment– I had a feeling that would work. Jeff

Cheryl said...
February 22, 2010 at 9:58 am

I am enjoying this method of bread making, but am having problems cutting through the crust. What kind of bread knife do you use? Or am I doing something wrong that the crust is too hard or I just don’t have a good knife? (the bottom is especially hard- I Iam using a baking stone and parchment paper) Other than that the bread has been amazing!

Mary Beth said...
February 22, 2010 at 12:02 pm

can I use a convection oven? what changes in temp/time do I need to make?

zoe said...
February 22, 2010 at 12:40 pm

Hi Cheryl,

Are you using an oven thermometer? Your oven may be running slightly off and that can effect the crust. But, I’ve had other people tell me that they got a new bread knife and that was all that was wrong. This is the one I recommend. http://www.amazon.com/W%C3%BCsthof-Classic-9-Inch-Bread-Knife/dp/B00005MEH2/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1266867546&sr=1-7 There is a cheaper version, but the blade doesn’t last nearly as long.

Thanks, Zoë

zoe said...
February 22, 2010 at 12:41 pm

Hi Mary Beth,

Yes, you can use a convection with wonderful results. You may need to adjust the temperature down by 20 degrees, if your oven doesn’t do that automatically. The heat is more intense in a convection oven and if you don’t adjust the temperature the crust will brown before the interior is properly baked.

Thanks, Zoë

Linda T. said...
February 22, 2010 at 3:59 pm

Bread knife: As someone who is pretty good at slicing fingers, the knife I like even better is the offset-style knife; I think Wusthof calls theirs a deli knife. This allows you to use some weight to cut downward, more than wrist action.

Jennifer said...
February 23, 2010 at 7:34 am

Hi, I wanted to offer a suggestion for those folks like me who prefer to avoid plastic containers. I’ve discovered that my 4-quart crockery insert for my slow cooker works perfectly as a mixing and storage container. As with all crockpots, the glass lid is not airtight, so this works as well.

By the way, I made the braided challah with whole wheat for my family last Friday. No one, including me, could believe that such as beautiful and delicious loaf was so easy to make. We were all thrilled. Thank you!

zoe said...
February 23, 2010 at 10:29 am

Hi Jennifer,

Thanks for the wonderful suggestion! So glad you enjoyed the Challah.

Cheers, Zoë

Vern Lindquist said...
February 24, 2010 at 10:04 am

So I just read this article by Harold McGee (with a video beneath it by Mark Bittman). They basically slam your method–which I use and adore–as an “industrial shortcut” that makes for “harsh” tasting bread. How do you respond to their criticisms? Thanks–

zoe said...
February 24, 2010 at 1:41 pm

Thank you Vern,

It is disappointing that they chose to “slam it” as opposed to recognizing the benefit to the variety of approaches that are available. Our method offers people the ability to make wonderful bread quickly and with little stress. We also offer people the option to use as much or as little yeast as suits their schedule and palate. It is one man’s opinion, but I fear he didn’t fully understand the nature of our method. To capture the best result and time savings you need to store the dough and that was completely missing from his article.

I greatly admire Harold McGee and Jim Lahey, and wish to take nothing away from their method of baking, but I do think there is room for a variety of approaches that can give people wonderful bread.

Enjoy all the bread! Zoë

zoe said...
February 24, 2010 at 1:52 pm

Hi Tom,

I’m sorry you are having a difficult time, this process is meant to be enjoyable. If you decide to give it another shot we are more than happy to help you work it out.

Have a good day! Zoë

Grayce Doyle said...
February 24, 2010 at 6:03 pm

I ue a Cuisinart DLX with a dough blade. How long should I mix the dough?

Mike said...
February 25, 2010 at 4:13 am

I LOVE this method of baking bread. Since discovering your method and buying the book, I bake my family fresh bread EVERY day! I use the refrigerator rise method, set the oven to automatically start preheating while I’m asleep, and put it in the oven as soon as I wake up. Less than 30 minutes later I have bread.

That’s great because I’m out the door for my 12 hour work day less than 1 hour after I wake up. What other method allows me to do this?

In my opinion, naysayers either haven’t tried the method for a full cycle, or are bitter that they made a mistake and didn’t get the results that they wanted for some reason on the first try.

And the word to the wise is this: Don’t buy any extra equipment until you’ve tried the method with the tools that you have a few times. Use a cookie sheet, shape a round loaf, and pop it in the oven. I happened to have a baking stone already, so I’ve invested $0 extra and am THRILLED with the results.

Mike said...
February 25, 2010 at 4:15 am

Oops! I did invest in the book, so I can’t claim $0 invested. But it was the best money that I’ve spent in quite awhile!

Thanks for a great bread baking method!

jeff said...
February 25, 2010 at 5:43 am

Grayce: As with all our recipes, just mix until all the wet and dry ingredients come together smoothly, this is pretty quick. Jeff

jeff said...
February 25, 2010 at 5:48 am

Mike: Thanks for your comments. As you say, no need to buy equipment until you’ve figured out exactly how you want to use the method. Check back anytime you have questions. Jeff

Mike said...
February 25, 2010 at 10:52 am

Thank you, Jeff.

Actually, I do have a question. If I wanted to make multiple loaves at the same time, say 4 or 5, of the challah braided bread, how much do you guess that I’d have to adjust the cooking time?

I know it’s pretty much trial and error due to oven differences, but if you have a starting point based on experience, it would be very helpful.

As a side note, my oven doesn’t hold steam well at all, so I use an inverted deep chafing pan over my loaves and get GREAT results.

Thanks again!

Mary Beth said...
February 25, 2010 at 11:29 am

I now own ABin5 and HBin5. (2 copies: one for a friend). wow you have made me a instant success!! my husband is raving and trying to not eat too much bread at dinner (the biggest compliment!). Three Questions: I froze some 1# pieces of raw dough which had been sitting in the fridge for a week. When it’s time to bake, what’s the best procedure? can I use some bleached unsifted flour in place of unbleached (bought the wrong one)? which recipe can I use for pizza?

zoe said...
February 25, 2010 at 2:09 pm

Hi Mike,

As you said it may just be a matter of trial and error. I often bake a number of loaves at once and it doesn’t change the baking time by much at all. One thing you may find is that you will need to rotate the loaves if you are baking on two different racks in the oven at once. The top and bottom crust will be effected by having breads above and below them. After about 20 minutes check the loaves and see if they are coloring at the same rate. If not, switch from top to bottom and back to front. If they are all on one level it will not be as much of an issue.

Enjoy all that bread! Zoë

zoe said...
February 25, 2010 at 2:25 pm

Hi Mary Beth,

I just put the frozen packet of dough in the fridge overnight and then treat it as though I took it out of the bucket the next day. You may want to let it rest a bit longer than normal, especially if it has been frozen for a few weeks.

I use the master recipe or the olive oil dough to make my pizza.

Thanks for trying the bread and sharing with your friend! Zoë

Flora said...
February 25, 2010 at 3:02 pm

Just finished eating slices of soft whole wheat bread (longest 10 minutes of waiting for it to cool) with husband and kids. We’re all doing the jig in the kitchen. What is it about fresh bread that has us doing the happy dance? You guys rock!

jeff said...
February 25, 2010 at 10:19 pm

Thanks Flora!

Dave said...
February 26, 2010 at 5:57 pm

I’m new to all this and not afraid to keep trying. I collected all of the implements and ingredients and made my first batch of dough yesterday. This afternoon I dove in and baked my first basic recipe.

The gluten-cloak gave me fits. I have tried to form two loafs and can not get them to have a smooth skin. The dough just stretches apart. I followed the recipe to the letter. The dough in the tub looked just like yours in the video. I added small amounts of flour as I was shaping but none seemed to help. The baked results did not yield any large holes in the crumb.
The crust was nice but did not crackle when removed from the oven.

I realize that it’s difficult to make suggestion without actually seeing my results but maybe you have some suggestions anyway.

If others are making this bread successfully then I should be able to also.

Thanks for you time.

jeff said...
February 26, 2010 at 9:21 pm

Dave: As for the hole size, that will get better as the batch ages, watch for that.

But about the “cloaking,” why don’t you try something simpler while learning the method? Just do the loaves in a loaf pan for a while, which controls sideways spread and gives you a chance to practice “cloaking” some more.

FYI: the more whole grain in a loaf, the less it crackles when removed from oven. You might want to try the white bread first, easier in a number of ways, with a more predictable result. Jeff

Dave said...
February 27, 2010 at 12:00 pm

Jeff,
Thank you for your quick response. I really goofed though. I should have been more clear in saying that I am working with the basic recipe, not a whole wheat version. My bad.

My crumb comes out looking like traditional bread. That tells me that when I cloak the bread I’m working it too much. I am not able to get a smooth skin on top.

Kitter said...
February 27, 2010 at 2:53 pm

Another thanks for the video! So helpful. Aaaand, another request for more videos. Something that would be helpful to me is a visual comparison of ABin5 to HBin5 dough. I’m still not sure my HB dough is right (so dry!)… but perhaps that’s because I’m expecting it to be wet & stretchy like the AB dough?

I have to give you guys a huge thanks for sharing your method. I feel so empowered! I’ve been making all of our bread for months, and feel great about the contribution I make to my family’s health… and budget! Plus, it’s just fun – and this is coming from someone that has struggled with Kitchen Intimidation for years.
THANK YOU!

jeff said...
February 27, 2010 at 9:06 pm

Kitter: More videos are coming, for sure. I’ve been thinking of doing one with a wetter dough— you’re right, the white dough is stretchier. Maybe that’ll be next. Jeff

Rowan said...
February 28, 2010 at 8:22 am

Just wanted to share somethings that I found helpful to make sure that my 5 minutes was really 5 minutes.

At the dollar store I purchased 2 shakers like you see in pizzareas and keep one with flour and the other with cornmeal on my counter top for when I want to bake the bread.

I also keep a dedicated cake pan for the steaming of bread stored in the oven when not otherwise in use.

Lastly, I found an inexpensive wooden cutting board with an opening for your hand to use as my pizza paddle, I store it away separate so it is only used as a ‘pizza paddle’.

zoe said...
February 28, 2010 at 11:38 am

Hi Rowan,

I love all of your ideas. I have to try the shaker of flour, that sounds like a great alternative!

Thanks, Zoë

Kate said...
March 1, 2010 at 3:18 pm

I love the idea of having bread anytime, but I find that my dough is far wetter than the pics and doesn’t create those lovely gluten strands. I’ve done it by weight and done the sweep method. I use the KA White Wheat flour, Red Star yeast and 1/4 c of wheat gluten… any ideas??

Even after chilling, the dough is pretty sticky, and if you grab a lump it pulls right off – no need for kitchen shears. During the rest period, the dough goes out instead of up, so my loaves end up 3″ tall by about 9 or 10″ in diameter.

On the other hand, I’ve learned that I can use my cast iron pot as a cloche, and if you add a tiny bit of water when you put the dough in, you can get a wonderfully hard crust even on a whole wheat loaf. Just be sure to take the lid off after about 20 minutes, so the loaf has time to brown up nicely.

zoe said...
March 1, 2010 at 9:30 pm

Hi Kate,

Are you making 100% whole wheat loaf or is it the Master recipe? The 100% whole grain tends to have much less stretch, due to all the bran in the dough. You can try adding a couple more tablespoons of vital wheat gluten to the mix next time.

We love the Dutch oven baking and you don’t really even need to add the additional water. The moisture from within the dough will create all the steam you need. But, if you are loving it as you do now, don’t fix it! http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552 (this is a bread based on the master from ABin5, but it is the same technique for HBin5).

Thanks, Zoë

dockside said...
March 5, 2010 at 10:44 am

I just saw this adaptation of your basic recipe for sprouted flour. Have you tried this and/or needed to add gluten (as in your second book) to get a good texture? Looks like some interesting and promising stuff! It would be great not to have to buy sprouted breads!

jeff said...
March 5, 2010 at 1:56 pm

Dockside: If that flour is whole grain spelt, I’m guessing that this will be dense with storage. Unless, as you suggest, vital wheat gluten is used.

Give it a shot! Jeff

Bill said...
March 6, 2010 at 11:23 am

Hey Jeff & Zoe,

Just shaped my first two loaves of the whole wheat with olive oil. Got the gluten strands, yippee. Now letting them rest before baking. I’ll let you know how it turns out.

Bill

Janet said...
March 6, 2010 at 8:39 pm

I was wondering if you have a recipe that uses coconut flour? Thanks.

zoe said...
March 6, 2010 at 9:04 pm

Hi Janet,

I have never used coconut flour, but I think I should give it a try. You are the second person this week to bring it up.

Thanks, Zoë

Rick Sutherland/Barb Karg said...
March 7, 2010 at 8:05 pm

I’m pretty fond of using loaf pans for bread ( Mom used ‘em for forty some-odd years, so there you have it). Any opinions or suggestions for using cast iron loaf pans? My old, mostly worn out “nonstick” pans (and most new ones) are supposed to be utilized below 400 degrees–and I hate them for aesthetic reasons anyway. Cast iron? preheat? Moderatly preheated? Anything? Many thanks.
BTW, my wife and I are both writers; about twenty books published by real publishers with minimal fame and painfully minimal fortune . . . hey, it’s a living. We’re quietly and entirely professionally envious as hell, but you guys rock with well deserved success. Many thanks!

zoe said...
March 7, 2010 at 10:52 pm

Hi Rick,

20 books! Wow, you must be incredibly busy. Glad you find time to bake bread.

I have not used the iron loaf pans, but I LOVE my iron pizza pan and I imagine that the loaf pan would work well. You will need to grease it really, really well before putting the dough in to rise. You can’t preheat the pan because you have to allow the dough to rise in it. You will have to watch that you don’t over bake the bread, since the iron will retain and conduct heat so well. Try a loaf and see what you think. Come back and let me know how it goes!

Thanks and happy baking! Zoë

Penny said...
March 9, 2010 at 3:31 pm

Once the dough is in the refrigerator, it collapses to half what it was. Normal? Fridge too cold? I did something wrong while making the dough?

zoe said...
March 9, 2010 at 9:56 pm

Hi penny,

Our dough rises in the bucket and then collapses and will never rise in the bucket again. In fact, most of the rise you will see happens once it is in the oven!

Thanks, Zoë

Darlene said...
March 16, 2010 at 9:39 pm

Being a single mom leaves me poorer than dirt. I couldn’t afford to buy a peel nor a baking stone. What I could afford was an unglazed Terra cotta tile from the Blue and White home improvement store. I also have several cookie sheets at home. I use the Terra cotta tile for the baking stone and turn my cookie sheet (well, technically, it’s a Jelly roll pan) upside down. I put my corn meal on it, plop my shaped dough on top of the corn meal and let it rest for 90 minutes. The a quick opening of the oven, shake & jerk back of the pan and my bread is safely on my tile. In goes the water and a quick close of the door – 30 minutes later I have a great loaf of bread.

Moral of the story: sometimes you just have to think outside of the box, not go outside and buy the box.

jeff said...
March 17, 2010 at 9:23 am

Darlene: Yes– we’re definitely in favor of the unglazed quarry tiles. Key is unglazed. This doesn’t need to be an expensive hobby at all. The ingredients cost just 40 cents a loaf for the basic stuff. Jeff

Teresa said...
March 19, 2010 at 3:58 pm

I’m making the Gluten-Free Crusty Boule and the dough is total liquid (it hasn’t set for 2 hours yet) so I’m just wondering if there are corrections to this recipe. I’ve reviewed each ingredient and amount 3 times making sure I didn’t miss anything. Thank you!

zoe said...
March 19, 2010 at 6:21 pm

Hi Teresa,

Here is a post on that loaf that may be of help: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1396

Are you measuring your flours with the scoop and sweep method? If you spoon the flour into the cup you will end up with too little flour and the dough will be way too wet. The only other thing that would cause what you describe is a lack of xanthan gum.

Let me know if this helps! Zoë

Gina said...
March 20, 2010 at 9:10 am

I am SO thrilled with your book. It has revolutionized my life! I have been baking whole wheat bread with fresh flour that I mill myself for about 10 years but had gotten away from it because of the time and because my loaves would all go stale so quickly. This method is so easy! I’ve made 3 batches in the last 2 weeks!

I have two questions. I measure my flour by weight and not by volume and the dough is very very wet when I go to shape it. I’m just able to pour it into the pan. Should I be adding more?

Secondly, I have tons of great recipes for whole grain breads (Laurel’s book) that I’d love to adapt to this method but I”m not much of a scientist. Is it possible to do so by simply adding more water and the gluten?

Happy baking day! I’m off to make brownies for a birthday party!

Gina said...
March 20, 2010 at 9:14 am

Another question I have is about temperature. I make all of my loaves in loaf pans for sandwiches. Should there be any difference in the baking temperature or length of time in the oven?

zoe said...
March 20, 2010 at 3:05 pm

Hi Gina,

Often when people mill their own flour it is much coarser than the commercially ground flours. This results in a dough that is wetter than we intended. Some people have found it helpful to add a couple more tablespoons of vital wheat gluten to the mix, or to just add more flour.

To adapt your own recipes you will need to add more water and the vital wheat gluten and then just experiment until you get it just right!

to bake in a loaf pan you need to let the dough rest longer in the pan and bake it longer, but not change the temperature. http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=904

Thanks, Zoe

Gina said...
March 21, 2010 at 8:12 pm

Thanks Zoe. I made the Simple 100% Whole Wheat tonight and you said in the book, if it’s going to be done with honey (which I added, but only about 2 tbs) that it should be done at 350 instead of 450 and for longer. Is that only due to the additional honey? My loaf came out beautiful. I can’t wait to taste it!

jeff said...
March 22, 2010 at 3:27 pm

Gina: Yes, the honey tends to make it burn at the higher temp. May be less so since you used so little honey. Jeff

Cheryl said...
March 23, 2010 at 8:01 am

I’ve had good luck with making your bread by the instructions, but I’d like to make larger loaves. Perhaps double the size that the “grapefruit” sized dough makes. Could you give me any guidance? I love the rye bread recipe.

jeff said...
March 23, 2010 at 9:17 am

Cheryl: Assume you need longer rising time, no less than 90 minutes after shaping. Baking time’s longer, probably 40 minutes. Getting the interior fully baked is a little more temperamental– could use instant-read thermometer; lean doughs 205 to 210 degrees F at the center of the loaf; egg-enriched breads 185. Jeff

Kate said...
March 23, 2010 at 11:27 am

I have a tip for release from a loaf pan. My first batch of bread was WAY too wet, because I used the King Arthur Flour weight charts ~4 oz per cup instead of 5 oz per cup. So it was almost impossible to work with. I decided to bake it in a non-stick loaf pan, which I greased, but I used a trick I learned from baking English Toasting Bread and dusted the greased pan with cornmeal. The loaf released beautifully. The bread was very dense, but it was still delicious. I have a second batch in the frig now, using your weight chart, and it looks much more like the dough in your video.

zoe said...
March 23, 2010 at 8:30 pm

Hi Kate,

Thanks for the tip, it sounds like it would work like a charm and taste great as well.

Hope this next batch comes out well for you! Zoë

Gina said...
March 23, 2010 at 10:14 pm

Kate, so are you saying that the weights in the KAF Whole Grain Baking book are off? I flip to that page frequently when getting ready to bake and, as mentioned earlier, mill all of my own grain. That might be why my loaves were so wet.

I used to use cornmeal to release all my breads, but my family didn’t like the crunch on the outside of the loaves. Often lately, banging the pan on a counter will cause the final release needed to get them out.

jeff said...
March 24, 2010 at 10:37 am

Gina: I think Kate is saying that KAF is off; they don’t measure flour the same way that we do (it’s correct for their measurement style, which I believe is spoon-and-sweep; we use scoop and sweep). Jeff

Tom Boyle said...
March 26, 2010 at 10:39 am

I’m having a problem with blow-outs. I cover the dough with a towel and mist it while resting. I make deep slashes, but blow-outs still occur. What am I doing wrong?

jeff said...
March 26, 2010 at 12:31 pm

Tom: Try a longer resting time after shaping. 90 minutes should solve the problem (or are you already doing that?). Make your slashes straight down, with a serrated bread knife (not a razor or French lame, which will seal itself back up). Steady the loaf with the other hand while you make quick cuts with the serrated bread knife. Jeff

Erin said...
April 16, 2010 at 9:36 am

My oven is equipped with only 1 rack. Is it ok to pour the water into a small metal loaf pan (instead of a broiler pan) right next to the pizza stone on the same rack.

jeff said...
April 16, 2010 at 3:40 pm

Erin: Yes, that will work.

zoe (in England) said...
May 12, 2010 at 12:57 am

Good News – I have discovered an easier way for UK fans of your method to get hold of the Vital Wheat Gluten for the recipes in the new book.

Fishing tackle supply places will often have it, but in the UK it would be listed as Wheat Gluten Powder. Apparently the fishermen use it to form shapes of processed bait. I don’t have a fishing tackle store locally so am now buying it online from a fishing tackle store on Ebay UK.

Rose said...
May 12, 2010 at 8:11 am

Hi Jeff and Zoe – I received both of your wonderful books for Mother’s Day, and can’t wait to bake my way through both books. I have a couple of questions about a recipe in Healthy Bread in Five, though. This is for the Cracked Wheat Bread recipe on p. 109. Question 1: in the intro to the recipe, you say that we are blending cracked wheat with white whole wheat and traditional whole wheat, but then in the recipe it calls for white whole wheat, unbleached all-purpose flour, and cracked whole wheat. Should we use the all-purpose, or the traditional whole wheat, or is either one okay? Question 2: when you call for “cracked whole wheat”, do you mean bulgur? Or is there something else called that? I would be getting this at a Whole Foods Market, if it makes a difference.

If you’ve answered these questions elsewhere on the blog, I apologize! I did search around and also checked the “errors” tab, but couldn’t find anything about this particular recipe. I have some bulgur in the pantry that I’d like to use up so this recipe caught my eye, if indeed the cracked wheat is the same as bulgur.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read our questions and answer them on this blog – what a wonderful service to all of us!

~Rose

zoe said...
May 12, 2010 at 11:16 pm

Hi Zoe,

Thanks for the tip on the UK source for the VWG. I have never heard of this use for it before, but I am sure many folks will appreciate the tip.

Zoe

zoe said...
May 13, 2010 at 1:52 pm

Rose: Sorry about that– the paragraph is wrong, the recipe list is correct. Bulgar is a more roughly cracked whole grain that products labeled as “cracked whole wheat”– go with the latter.

Adrienne said...
May 13, 2010 at 5:45 pm

Instead of only baking off 1 pound loaf I would like to double for 2 lb loaf for when we have a group of people over. How much longer would I bake for 2 lbs (1 lb is usually 30 minutes)
thanks!

zoe said...
May 13, 2010 at 9:57 pm

Hi Adrienne,

You need to allow the dough to rest an extra 30+ minutes and it may take up to 45 minutes to bake. This will depend on how tall the loaf is, the flatter loaves bake faster.

Thanks, Zoë

Judy said...
June 10, 2010 at 8:17 am

Unless they’re in a pan, my 100% whole wheat loaves want to expand sideways instead of rising. I end up with flattish bread. Where can I buy a small, round, perforated bread pan?
Another question: How long would I bake a smaller loaf – made from a piece of dough about the size of a Navel Orange?

jeff said...
June 10, 2010 at 11:33 am

Judy: You may want to use vital wheat gluten if you’re not making your whole grain loaves from our second book. We did a post on how to use VWG at http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142. I’ve not seen a perforated pan like you describe…

Smaller loaves need less resting and baking time. Orange sized piece probably needs to rest after shaping only about 30 minutes, and baking time decreases to 20. Maybe 25?

Rosemary said...
June 23, 2010 at 11:14 am

One picture is worth a thousand words. I finally get this! Thank youi!

Sarah said...
July 5, 2010 at 2:59 pm

Hello! I love all of your ideas and techniques–they seem very practical! I have tried two batches of the HBin5 master recipe so far…and not with very good results. The dough is not very elastic–I can just reach my hand in and pull a chunk out, no knife needed. And my loaves end up really flat, there’s not much oven spring going on there. As far as I can tell, there are two parts to this problem. One, I live at high altitude. I know your book says to increase the vital wheat gluten and decrease the yeast in this case, which I have done. It did help a little, but the bread still came out rather flat, and the dough was not stretchy. Two, I mill my own flour. I looked at everyone else’s questions and comments to see if you already answered my question about adjusting for home-milled flour. I found something rather interesting…near the top of the page, Jeff said to make the dough wetter, as home-milled flour soaks up more water. Near the bottom of the page, Zoe answered someone else asking the same question by saying that the dough would be too wet, and to add either more vital wheat gluten or flour. So, for baking home-milled wheat bread at high altitude, which do I need more of to get that lovely stretchiness and dome shaped loaves? Water, or flour and vital wheat gluten?

Thanks for your help! I can’t wait to see my loaves turn out as beautiful as yours!

jeff said...
July 5, 2010 at 6:03 pm

Sarah: All bets are off when you mill your own flour, results are all over the board because moisture content, fineness, the amount of water it will absorb, and other parameters all vary unpredictably. From what you say, I’m guessing that you will benefit from more water— try an extra quarter cup, then next batch another quarter cup.

Zoe and I gave different answers because home-ground flour can be off in either direction– but from what you say, sounds like it’s too dry.

Which of our recipes are you using, and from which book? Jeff

leena said...
July 29, 2010 at 10:21 am

Hi This question is for Dr.Jeff:
I was just wondering about yeast products in general.Are they okay for our health.Some people say they are harmful (esp for autistic children, or immunocompromised persons)while others say they are beneficial. Was just wondering what your take on this is Dr.Jeff. Also should a person avoid yeast containing foods if they are prone to yeast infections?Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this but I was really wondering about this ? for a while now.

jeff said...
July 29, 2010 at 12:56 pm

Leena: The science changes all the time, and I can’t make authoritative statements here on the site, and I definitely can’t give medical advice. I’m not aware of any credible body of science that would support statements about a relationship between bread yeast and human diseases (but keep in mind that my lack of awareness doesn’t mean that such evidence doesn’t exist, or that it will never exist). I’m no expert on the question you’ve asked.

All I can say is that the yeast in bread is biologically distinct from yeasts that cause disease in humans… Jeff