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Baking Bread in a Closed Clay Pot (“Cloche”)– the best crust yet!
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by Jeff, March 31, 2009
Filed Under Special techniques | 78 Comments
So many people asked us about baking our dough inside a closed cast-iron pan that Zoe did a beautiful post on the subject a few weeks ago. The cast-iron pan method is based on a much older method, where bread is baked inside a closed clay pot (or “cloche,” meaning “bell” in French). Both methods depend on trapped steam from the dough to create a perfect crust, but the clay pot has the added benefit of being porous, so moisture is trapped, but also conducted away from the surface as the bread bakes. I tested the Sassafras brand “La Cloche” product, and I’m very impressed with the crust I’m getting –take a look at the picture above; this crust is thin and shatters when broken (the burned bits are perfect in artisan loaves; that’s how you know you’ve baked long enough). Keep in mind that these crust results are hard to re-create with loaves very high in whole wheat (because of oils in the wheat’s germ). The bread above is about 15% whole grains– it’s a light version of the Peasant Loaf on page 46 of the book. Whole grain breads perform beautifully in “La Cloche,” but the crust tends to be softer and thicker.
For crust aficionados, I think the ”La Cloche” results are a little better than what I get inside closed cast-iron. We didn’t put these two methods in our first book, because we wanted to keep things as simple as possible. But with results like these, they’re going into he second one (publication date is 10/13/09)!
Sassafras claims that James Beard once said that the “La Cloche” product gave him bread that was “nothing short of phenomenal.” “Beard on Bread” was the first bread cookbook I ever used–my wife brought it to our marriage, and then taught me to use it (click here and scroll down to meet Laura).
If James liked a product, I have to give it a try, though I should also say that readers have written me on Twitter (click to follow ArtisanBreadin5 there) to say that the Romertopf clay vessel works just as well, though I haven’t tried it myself.
Before using ”La Cloche,” rinse it in hot water to get rid of any ceramic powder left over from manufacturing, and let it dry overnight. Then apply a light coating of vegetable oil to the inside of the bottom piece (the bell-shaped top part doesn’t need it). The ceramic is very fine-grained and won’t absorb a lot of oil so it didn’t smoke when I pre-heated this thing to 450 F. You don’t need to cure the oil coating before you bake your first loaf. You’re ready to bake.
There are two ways to use La Cloche: the way that Sassafras officially endorses (putting a cool cloche into a preheated oven bearing raw dough that has rested/risen on cornmeal inside), or what I’ve found works better: preheating the top and bottom pieces of La Cloche to full baking temperature for 30 minutes, and then transferring fully-rested loaves into it (carefully, as in Zoe’s post). The crust result is fantastic; you can rest/rise in a banneton, then drop the dough into the hot bottom tray of the cloche, then cover (click here for my post on how to use a banneton). Baking time is the usual as written in our recipes. The other easy method is to rest/rise the loaf on parchment paper and just drop the loaf, with the paper, into the hot cloche. Cover and bake.
You don’t need a baking stone, you don’t need to introduce water into the oven for steam, and you don’t need to dampen the cloche; all the moisture you need comes from the dough and is trapped inside. One important point: Open the lid for the last third of baking, or the bread will not brown.
This is a very romantic baking dish (is that possible?); using it makes you think you’re in a different century. It’s heavy, and very tactile– here it is with an unbaked boule sitting in it (cool-cloche method):
Here’s the banneton-risen bread after the lid was removed to finish baking open to oven air:
There are two problems with the Sassafras-approved cool-cloche method: first, baking time is longer than written in our recipes, because the clay vessel has a lot of heat to absorb before the interior is up to baking temperature. Second, the crust just isn’t a crisp. So, even though the Sassafras instructions say to use a cool cloche, I’m going with a hot one. Keep in mind that this product doesn’t appear to be warranted against cracking, whether you follow their instructions or not. One important care instruction: never use soap on pottery baking vessels, just hot water and a clean scrub brush.
Ten years ago, Daniel Wing and Alan Scott wrote “The Bread Builders,” which was mainly about building your own wood-fired masonry and brick bread oven in your backyard (gotta do that someday). But they also had lots to say about the “La Cloche” product, which they thought was almost as good as their wood-fired masonry ovens. They interviewed the product’s inventor at Sassafras who told them that the fully-preheated method for using this product “…is fine.”
Good enough for me. Look at this bread!
Comments
clarice said...
March 31, 2009 at 5:48 pm
That looks really delicious, Jeff.
Kelly said...
March 31, 2009 at 6:00 pm
I definitely want to try the covered method. My crusts tend to be really pale.
I have this stone covered baker from Pampered Chef. Do you think it would work? It’s glazed on the outside, but the inside is not:
http://tiny.cc/tmYmE
Wayne said...
March 31, 2009 at 7:36 pm
I’ve been using one of the older, completely unglazed Pampered Chef stoneware bakers with great success. Through trial and error, I arrived at the same preheated approach that Jeff describes. Highly recommended!
Trish said...
March 31, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Kelly,
I have that Pampered Chef baker and it works very well for baking bread with this method. Give it a try!
Pat said...
March 31, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Can someone help me? I have an old Romertoff clay cooker that I never thought too much of and it seems people are using them for bread baking. Can I use it and if how? I used to soak it in water prior to use and do I do that same thing for baking bread? Or, do I just preheat it in the oven and pop the bread in it on parchment paper? I sure don’t want to buy more stuff than I have to have! I’ve added too much already doing this bread that I absolutely love!
I baked another loaf of olive oil dough rolled out with Herbs de Provence in it and then made into a boule and it was/is glorious and smells so good. It made a good supper with some Roma tomatoes, cheese and oil to dredge it in!
Claire (in France) said...
April 1, 2009 at 5:17 am
Hi Jeff
You light be interested in the picture I posted in this forum: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/3/1589215/ShowPost.aspx#1589215.
This picture is not the best for “grignes” (ears) and other breads I have baked have come up with some similar to your own picture at the top of this page.
The bread is baked from a cold start, after a 60-90mn rest, in what is called a Remoska, which is a small electrical appliance with a heating element in the lid, sold in the UK (http://www.hoorayforhomecooking.co.uk/index.html)
The lid forms a tight fit with the pan and in effect, acts just like a cloche or Dutch oven would in a full-size oven.
Although the maximum temperature is “only” 200°C/375°F, I get the most satisfyingly crispy crunchy crust on all the breads I bake in it. In fact, I haven’t used my full-size oven for 3 months and yet, I bake your bread and pizza recipes two or three times a week!
PS: the main reason for not using the big oven is purely household economics, which is where your bread recipes also come in handy…
Claire (in France) said...
April 1, 2009 at 5:49 am
Oops! 
Apologies for the spelling mistake in the opening sentence (might, not light!)
Cheap Like Me said...
April 1, 2009 at 5:57 am
I’m curious … did you transfer the dough on a parchment, as Zoe did with the cast-iron pan method, or did you dump it in? The cold photo looks transferred, while the final finished bread looks like the bread I flip and dump into my cast-iron pan. Both are lovely.
Last night I made some quick ficelles for dinner that were a huge hit. Even cooking in the oven with another dish, they got a great chewy crust that my daughter discovered was perfect for first eating half the crust, then ripping the insides out of the other half and turning the shell into a fake nose.
jeff said...
April 1, 2009 at 6:05 am
That Pampered Chef product should work, whether or not it’s glazed.
Pat: The Romertopf should work exactly as above– skip the water inside, it’s not needed. Preheating first, dropping the rested loaves is my favorite technique.
Claire: Interesting little gadget!
CLM: I proofed the one with floury cirlces in a Banneton, then flipped it into the bottom piece. The “cover photo” was proofed on parchment, then dropped in.
Gotta try that fake nose disguise!
TIV from Finland said...
April 1, 2009 at 8:28 am
Hello!
Anxiously waiting for your new book! Do you know will it be possible to pre-order via Amazon for instance?
Regarding Romertopf: A few years back I asked directly from the producers could I bake bread with it. The answer was: “yes, You can bake bread in any ROEMERTOPF but omit the lid.”
Also I have heard that the pot should be soaked and oiled before putting the dough in. I honestly do not know what would be the right way. I have always been taught that the pot must be soaked and placed in cold oven, otherwise it will crack..
jeff said...
April 1, 2009 at 9:29 am
TIV: We plan on having pre-order through Amazon, as we did for the 1st book. The instructions from the Sassafras cloche didn’t say to wet the vessel, so I didn’t do it. I haven’t bought the Romertopf, so I can’t say.
Amy K said...
April 1, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Hi Jeff
As you know I’ve been a fan for months now – baked uncovered on a stone, covered with bowl on stone and parchment and silpat on stone – all great – love the breads – been thinking about clay pots and now I am sold – my birthday is around the corner and that will be my gift – the heck with that economical flower pot idea I’ve been toying with – it’s La Cloche time!!
Anne Boulley said...
April 1, 2009 at 3:06 pm
I absolutely love my cloche. It is one of my favorite kitchen tools and the bread always comes out so beautiful. I also use my baking stone with a roasting lid over the top when I want to make the baguette shapes. mmm
Mary Frances said...
April 2, 2009 at 2:54 am
I have been using the cloche top for months with excellent results. I place my dough on parchment to rise. About 20 minutes before baking, I place the cloche top in the oven on top of my pizza stone and turn the oven to 500 degrees. When ready to bake, I slash the top of the dough, remove the very hot cloche top carefully from the stone and using a peel, place the parchment with dough directly on the stone and cover with the cloche. After about 15 minutes, I carefully remove the very hot cloche top, turn down the oven to 450 and finish baking. Excellent crust.
stefan bert said...
April 2, 2009 at 3:29 am
Hi Jeff
I tried yesterday Zoe’s Cast Iron pan with a boule and the result was spectacular; both crust and crumb. Today I tried a batard in a Romertopf (soaked in water for 10 mins) pre-heated for 30 in 500F and 15 min. covered + another 15 uncovered; had a great loaf, the crust as you say is not so crisp but otherwise it’s great, good idea.
Thanks,
Stefan
Flour Girl said...
April 2, 2009 at 6:47 am
Hi Jeff
Just when I think I’ve found the perfect method , you come up with a gorgeous looking loaf that beats everything ! Very impressive.
And you’re right. . .there’s really something romantic about this method of baking. . .a real connection to the past.
Thanks Jeff -I’ve got to try it !
Paul said...
April 2, 2009 at 8:53 am
I have had good results using a large dome shape unglazed clay flower pot. Using some hardware to make a handle through the drain hole. (See pic on flickr group Artisan in Five.)
jeff said...
April 2, 2009 at 9:09 am
Amy and FG: Give it a shot!
Anne: Love the idea of re-purposing kitchen stuff that way.
Mary F: I have a feeling that the crumb will be better if I start hotter, as you do– more oven spring.
Stefan: See what you think without the extra liquid…
Paul: Thanks for putting that up! Great idea.
clarice said...
April 3, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Thank you again for your wonderful book. Today was a hectic day and I made a simple Indian meal for dinner. I reached into my fridge, pulled out some peasant bread dough and whipped up some yummy naan to go with the tandoori chicken and carrot and tomato salad and my quickie dinner was much improved by this addition.
zoe said...
April 3, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Hi Clarice,
That is my all time favorite! Instant and tasty. So glad you tried it!
Zoë
Kathy said...
April 4, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Jeff & Zoe,
Just wanted to “thank you” for a fantastic book, and fantastic help! What other authors are available for question & answers?? You’re the first I know.
Anyhow, a friend of mine bought the book same time I did (3 months ago), and she was scared to try the recipe. I made her a loaf the other day, and yesterday, she made her first batch. She’s hooked, like the rest of us! Thanks again.
zoe said...
April 4, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Thank you Kathy!
So glad your friend is baking, thanks to you!!!!
Cheers, Zoë
rho said...
April 4, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Today I didn’t have a chance to make new dough and what I had was looking a bit ragged so I bought a loaf of well known artisan bread in our local produce store – and you got the highest compliment ever — hubby declared my bread (yours actually) much better!
I’m thinking of trying the buttermilk one tomorrow…
Dan said...
April 4, 2009 at 11:26 pm
On the contacts page, it said if a person has a general question to come to this part of any page and type a suggestion or a question. So, here goes: 1 comment and two questions.
Comment: Be careful when you spritz your oven when you have a ceramic baking stone in the oven. I hit our Pampered Chef stone with a shot of water from a spray bottle a while back and it instantly broke into about 5 pieces.
Now for the questions: How does this method work with Russian Black Bread, and does anyone have an authentic recipe? I was one of the first westerners into Gorky after paristroyka (I know totally wrong spelling). I was there to conduct a seminar and after I started raving about the Russian Bread being the best I had ever eaten (I grew up in a bakers family so it is saying something), anyway, I was offered a tour of the state bakery. (Which made several thousand loaves a day) As part of the tour, the bakery manager gave me her personal recipe book. Unfortunately, the recipe for Black Bread makes about 1000 loaves. Anyway, their bread was a black sourdough that was superb. Since the bread made with this method takes on many of the characteristics of sourdough, I wondered if it would work for Black Bread.
Question 2: I am looking for a multi-grain artisan style bread that works with this method similar to that made by The Original La Brea Bakery in Van Nuys, California. It is a sourdough multi-grain bread that contains about the whole kitchen sink of different grains, but is spectacular bread.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Dan
jeff said...
April 5, 2009 at 4:30 am
Rho: Thanks Rho, and thank hubby too!
Dan: Welcome to the site! Sorry about your stone– has anyone else had this experience?
Have your tried our pumpernickel recipe as a substitute for Russian Black Bread? I’m guessing that there is a fair amount of overlap there? Also, why not just use the proportions for your huge recipe– scale it down?
We’re working on a multi-grain loaf for our second book, due out 10/13/09, and focusing on whole grains, so please stay tuned! Jeff
Cathie said...
April 5, 2009 at 7:31 am
For those who have the PC 9×13 cake pan and roaster top, it makes a beautiful baguette (about 15″ limit going diagonally). I tried this last night for the first time and the results were spectacular.
I have almost all the PC stoneware as I used to sell it. I LOVE it. I will be trying rolls in the 9×13 with the roaster lid for Easter as my extended family has fallen in love with the bread as well.
Thank you, thank you , thank you!
Rosemary C said...
April 5, 2009 at 7:36 am
I love, love, love my long rectangular Sassafrass cloche. I have been using it for several months with your recipe. I grew up in San Francisco near Boudin Bakery on 10th and Geary, so it is awesome to freak out my family and friends with my bread. I sent an email with attached pictures to Zoe and she said that it had the most gorgeous crust. Made my day! Thanks Zoe. I pre-heat the cloche and then let the dough rise on parchment, scattered with cornmeal. I take out the hot bottom part of the cloche and place the risen dough, parchment and all, in the pan. Cover and bake; uncover toward the end. Perfect every time. Happy Spring to all!
jeff said...
April 5, 2009 at 8:52 am
Cathie/Rosemary: so many ways to do it well, thanks for both of your comments. Love that Boudin bakery!
Dan said...
April 5, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Jeff,
I will try the Pumpernickel.
I have a new extra interest in the whole grain breads and would love to be a beta tester if you ever need one. Was just diagnosed as borderline diabetic and told to go for whole grains if I am going to eat them. So, I have real motivation to collect good multi-grain recipes so that I don’t go into withdrawal. It is hard enough to look at some of the great loaves on this site and in your book. Good bread is one of life’s real pleasures so I want to be able to continue to enjoy it, but in a more healthy manner.
Also, I have appreciated Peter Reinhardt’s books. His suggestion to proof bread overnight in a refrigerator to allow gluten and flavor to develop have a lot of similarities to what you are suggesting. Is what you are doing a refinement of some of the same things he suggests. I realize that your “scoop” method of measuring is not nearly as precise as his, but the proofing is very similar – and both methods seem to work well. All I know is that what both of you have come up with is revolutionary when it comes to increasing the flavor of homemade breads and pizza doughs. Thank you!
Dan
zoe said...
April 6, 2009 at 9:22 am
Hi Dan,
While writing this new book about whole grains my husband was also diagnosed to be pre-diabetic and therefore required to eat more whole grains. Great timing for such a prescription. We are nearly done with the testing, but thank you for the generous offer!
The new book will be available in October of this year.
It is a great honor to be mentioned in the same sentence with Peter Reinhardt. He is a master baker and artist! The method of fermenting the dough in a “retarded” or cold state is very old and none of us can lay claim to that discovery. What we have done is to extend that to a really long storage, which is what makes our method truly different from what has been done in the past.
the only way to get an accurate measurement every time is to use a scale. One day all home bakers will use them, but until then we will use cup measures. In the new book we will have a chart so that you can convert the recipes to weights.
Thanks! Zoë
Maria said...
April 7, 2009 at 12:48 am
Hi Jeff and Zoe !!I have a question but not regarding this article,it just came up now!!
I would like tobake hot cross buns ths easter and was wondering what dough from the book could I use?? brioche mixing dried fruits? pannetone?
any ideas?
hugs
Maria
jeff said...
April 7, 2009 at 4:51 am
Maria: Depending on how rich you want your hot cross buns, you could choose either the challah (a little leaner) or the brioche (richer). Pannetone has all the dried fruit already in it, so that’s an option too.
Happy Easter!
Margot Miller said...
April 7, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Hi Guys, Love your bread! You are geniuses. My book is coming and you probably answer this question within it, but my husband and don’t want to miss a crumb in the meantime and we have been told that salt is out for us. Can we use your recipes without it or will its lack have some dire effect?
Thanks! Margot
Jo said...
April 7, 2009 at 1:18 pm
I’ve tried to find this type of cloche for sale in Europe (UK) but no luck through Google. Anyone knows where I can find one? I don’t want a Romertopf.
Thanks!
Janknitz said...
April 7, 2009 at 6:13 pm
I found a clay baker at a Goodwill store for $3.99 and had to give it a try.
I was very impressed with the oven spring (more than doubled!), lovely crumb with nicely distributed big holes and thin crackly crust.
However, my bread had a lot of “blistering” on the crust and I think I see that in your close up photo, too. So it was more like a “toad” than a “prince”. It tasted fine and had lovely texture, but it’s just something I noticed. It wasn’t quite as pretty as my other breads.
zoe said...
April 7, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Hi Margot,
Here is a post about salt: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=139
The short answer is that you can use as little salt as you want and the recipe will still work wonderfully!
Happy baking, Zoë
jeff said...
April 8, 2009 at 6:05 am
Jo: Why don’t you like the Romertopf? I’d be surprised if that were your only option. Have you tried the cast-iron pan method? http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552
JanKnitz: To each his own, I love that blistering! The oven spring is very nice in this method when you preheat this way.
Lara Fabans said...
April 8, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Some people suggest soaking the La Cloche first.
I remember I used to soak my clay pot when I would cook a chicken in it.
I’d forgotten that suggestion and may try it, as well as the preheated method since my crust is less then stellar.
Actually I still have problems with the center not getting cooked all the way through.
Linda T. said...
April 9, 2009 at 12:49 pm
I am wondering if could try using the cast iron pot tipped over as more of the cloche-style cover onto my pizza stone. If I slide the bread onto the preheated stone, then cover with the preheated pot, I wouldn’t have to manipulate it into the pot or have too much parchment paper pulling on it. But — would I crack the stone with the steam inside??
zoe said...
April 9, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Hi Linda,
It would work well, people have described this very practice and claimed to have fantastic results!
You can also try the lasagna pan method, which is a bit less cumbersome. http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=510
Enjoy and let us know how it turns out!
Zoë
Lisa said...
April 11, 2009 at 12:22 pm
What a great site! Love all the pictures and recipes. Very inspiring! Now I need to get myself a La Cloche!
Flour Girl said...
April 12, 2009 at 5:35 am
Hi Jeff and Zoe !
Thanks so much for shraring all your recent baking experiences !
I am so tempted to spring for the La Cloche – but it looks like a tough shape to store ( on top of the fridge, perhaps ?) And there were so many posts on Amazon about people receiving shattered pots? Did they improve their packaging ? Its so tempting- your loaf is gorgeous !
For everyone interested in adding more whole grain to their bread, I use 1/4 cup of either Whole Food organic 7 grain cereal (in the bulk bins) DRY-not soaked or cooked or Bob’s Red Mill 7 grain cereal for every 3 cups of bread flour in the basic boule recipe. I bet you can even try adding a bit more. . . I also add a few tbs. of miller’s wheat bran flakes.
I find that this gives a nice balance of fiber, texture, and chewiness without the heaviness or bitterness of whole wheat flour. It really works beautifully. Healthier bread-but still very light .
matt said...
April 12, 2009 at 7:23 pm
I am skeptical of the science behind the claim that unglazed clay covered pots can produce a better crust than glazed clay covered pots when both are preheated before adding the dough (esp dough on parchment). Porous or not I don’t see how the very hot surface of the vessel will absorb water.
I love your book and this website. I am trying to work my way through the recipes but we get stuck on brioche a lot… I just wanted to know if there is any science or testing behind this unglazed is better than glazed idea.
jeff said...
April 13, 2009 at 4:50 am
Lisa: Have at it, and let us know how it goes!
FG: My Cloche arrived intact, don’t know what to say. Check with Amazon as to the return policy if it arrives damaged.
Matt: Not sure why you don’t think hot vapor will penetrate the porous material, but I’d be the 1st to admit that there’s no published science on this!! Just educated guesses. My guess is that the difference isn’t radical– if you like the result you get in a glazed vessel, stick with that. Jeff
Abby said...
April 14, 2009 at 3:09 pm
I think I’m on my 5th batch of bread and am loving it, but I find that my bread doesn’t brown as much as the pictures on the site. I usually do a 2 lb loaf and bake it on the stone with a cup of water and I up the baking time quite a bit. Usually 45 minutes to an hour….should I be cooking it longer? It’s nicely browned but definitely not dark, and it is very crusty. I do notice that the top element in my oven is rarely on…..that could be it I suppose?
zoe said...
April 14, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Hi Abby,
the first thing to check is your oven thermometer. I’ve noticed that my oven dropped 25 degrees recently! ;( You need to monitor the oven all the time, especially if you are using it a lot.
If you know that your oven is baking at the right temperature then you may want to move the oven rick up another rung. If you do this you need to watch it the first time and it may not need to bake as long as you have been doing.
Thanks, Zoë
Cathie said...
April 17, 2009 at 6:28 am
Well, I’ve totally abandoned the broiler pan method and am using clay instead. The crust is amazing. I did a pain d’epi last night and everyone was so excited to get “an end”. That’s what the kids fight over. Also did 12 buns in a 9×13 covered PC stoneware baker for Easter and they were fabulous.
Thank you!
jeff said...
April 17, 2009 at 11:57 am
Cathie: Especially in some ovens, it’s definitely a way to go. Glad things are working well for you.
Abby said...
April 21, 2009 at 1:40 pm
How would you recommend cooking buns? Should I do them in a dish? I want them to be wonderful and crusty, I’m just not sure how to get them into the oven!
Also my bread doesn’t really have the nice big air holes. I’ve tried wetter dough, dryer dough…nothing seems to make a difference. There are some nice holes near the outer crust but only tiny ones in the center of the loaf, what am I doing wrong? Thanks
jeff said...
April 21, 2009 at 5:11 pm
We usually do them on a stone if we want them to be crusty (also bake with steam per instructions in the book or on the website).
As for hole size– try a longer resting time, maybe 90 minutes rather than 40. Jeff
clarice said...
May 11, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I know you are working on your new book. This weekend I decided to try some of the King Arthur European-Style Artisan Bread Flour I had bought before I started experimenting with your stuff. I used it on the standard Sullivan St Bakery loaf and the flavor and texture was unbelievable. It has some whole wheat in it and is really terrific. If it’s not too late for inclusion in the book, I beg you two to try your hand at something using this and let me know how it worked out.
zoe said...
May 11, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Hi Clarice,
The KA flour sounds great. I will have to order some and check it out.
Thanks for the tip! Zoë
Hilary said...
May 16, 2009 at 10:49 am
Love this bread! I’ve made mistakes in measuring and oven temp, and everything comes out fabulous with a great texture and crumb.
I tried my new cloche today, and while the bread was wonderful, it was totally stuck to the bottom. I had oiled the bottom beforehand, and used what I thought was plenty of cornmeal. Am I missing something? Should I just try it using parchment paper?
Thanks for any help,
Hilary
jeff said...
May 16, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Can’t figure it out, I had no trouble with this. Try a little more seasoning of the clay (another coating of oil, then heat it). And I think you’ll stick less with the pre-heated clay method as above.
Otherwise yes, parchment.
Judy said...
May 25, 2009 at 7:12 pm
I am having trouble getting a shiny crust on my basic artisan bread (no whole grain flour). Occasionally it comes out thin and shiny, but more often it is dull and looks floury, even though I don’t get any extra flour on it when shaping it. I let it rise uncovered. I hope you can help.
Thanks.
zoe said...
May 25, 2009 at 8:00 pm
Hi Judy,
What kind of oven are you using? It sounds like it may not trap the steam well enough to get a really shiny crust. This can happen in professional ovens and in older model ovens. You may want to switch to using one of the methods that helps to trap the steam.
http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=510
http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552
Let me know if this helps! Zoë
Elizabeth said...
June 21, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Just got your book from Amazon today. Read it through front to back. A couple of questions. 1. I have a lidded plastic dough bucket. Should I snap the lid on or just cover the bucket with the lid, not snapped, because you say not “air tight”.
2. When you say to preheat the oven to 450 degrees 20 minutes before baking, do you mean to bring the oven up to that temperature or just to put the bread in after 20 minutes, no matter what the oven temp. is at that point? If that’s the case, why do I need an oven thermometer? It seems more accurate to preheat the oven to the correct temp. before putting the bread in. Please clarify.
zoe said...
June 21, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Hi Elizabeth,
Your bucket sounds just great, as long as it is 5 quarts. Just place the lid on the bucket, but don’t snap it shut. You want to allow the gases from the yeast to escape.
You will get a better crust on your bread if you let the oven come to full temperature as read on an oven thermometer. This may take 20 minutes, but usually mine takes closer to 30+ to really achieve the right temperature. Every oven is different.
Thank you and enjoy the bread!
Zoë
Andrea said...
December 21, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I just got the Healthy Bread book and am interested in getting either a La Cloche or Romentopf. I have a small kitchen, so storage is an issue. I see there are 2 sizes of the smaller Romertoph’s available. The model 110 is 12 x 8.2 x 6. The 111 is 14.5 x 9.x 6.8. Would the model 110 be big enough for a 1 lb loaf? I’ve also seen a brand called Schlemmertoph which is clay in various sizes but the bottom part is glazed. I assume that would not work as well?
jeff said...
December 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm
12 by 8 by 6 sounds just fine. I’m actually beginning to wonder if porosity of the surface really matters– cast-iron seems to work as well as a stone in our most recent experiments. So, even though my first choice might be glazed, if there are other reasons to choose glazed, I think it could be worth a try. Jeff
Andrea said...
December 21, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Thanks. Until I order the pan, I found a very big & thick metal loaf pan (that a friend gave me … from France), that is 12 x 8 x 4. It has a glass lid. It looks like it might be anodized.5 aluminum, altho I ‘ve never seen a US material quite like this. I am wondering if I can bake bread in that (with the glass lid on, or invert it over a pizza stone until I place (and receive) my order. I have my first batch dough in the fridge that I made last night that I’m going to bake this evening. I guess all I can do is try, and it might not come out with the perfect crust.
jeff said...
December 22, 2009 at 5:22 am
Andrea: any closed baking vessel will trap the steam and create a nice crust. Either of your suggestions should work, but sounds like the easiest would be to use the cover it came with.
But… grease it very well, our wet dough sticks to non-stick surfaces. We even recommend greasing non-stick pans, so be careful. Jeff
Andrea said...
December 22, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Jeff,
I made the Whole Wheat/Seed/Oatmeal bread in a boule shape yesterday using an old glazed ceramic covered casserole which I bought at a Fort Mason art show in San Francisco years ago, and it came out fantastic. I let the dough rise on parchment paper, preheated the cassorole, dropped the dough and parchment paper into the casserole, baked covered for 15 minutes, and then baked the rest uncovered til the crust looked right. It was the best homemade bread I’ve ever made.
For Christmas I ‘m going to try making a bigger oval loaf using the covered metal loaf pan.
I’m inspired!! Thanks!
zoe said...
December 22, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Hi Andrea,
That is fantastic! I love that bread and I’m so glad it worked in your covered casserole.
Thanks! Zoë
Alex said...
January 17, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Andrea,
As far as I know all modern Romertopf pots have glazed bottoms. My grandma had one that wasn’t glazed, but she would have bought that 30-50 years ago. I have had a couple over the last 10 years and both were glazed (bottom only) which is far preferable especially if you use it for other dishes as well as it is easier to clean. It is fantastic for moist mouth-watering roasts.
Jeff, would you recommend soaking the lid in water ebfore baking bread in it or relying solely on steam generated from the dough? I might have to try both versions and compare…
So, who can I get to eat all this bread I want to try? Seems I am surrounded by people who love the plastic-bagged-supermarket-carboard-sandwich-bread variety *sigh*.
zoe said...
January 18, 2010 at 12:47 pm
Hi Alex,
I think you get away without soaking the lid, but the experiment will be an interesting one. Please do report back.
Do you have an oven thermometer? If the flour is turning brown it could be that your oven is running a touch too hot or your baking above the center of the oven?
None of your neighbors will take the bread? Mine are more than happy to take it off my hands!
Alex said...
January 19, 2010 at 5:10 am
Zoe, I might have to ask them. Seems like these days people seem to think bread is evil. When my husband remarked to his parents how lovely it is to have fresh home-baked bread, his mother exclaimed “Oh but be careful, bread is so fattening” while devouring into a cheesecake… lol
Alex
Alex said...
January 19, 2010 at 5:17 am
Oh, and regarding the flour browning, I do have an oven thermometre. Assuming it is fairly accurate, my oven does not run hot. I might have to try baking on a lower rack. My oven is pretty old and not well insulated. A piece of junk, really. so I guess the heat is just very uneven. But a new one will have to wait…
The end of my last post is meant to read: “while devouring a cheesecake”
Alex
Sharon said...
January 26, 2010 at 2:09 pm
My husband read Alan Scott’s book, and then he built a brick oven in our backyard! However you manage ot do it, fresh bread is the best–next to pizza!
Dina Hafiz said...
April 25, 2010 at 11:40 pm
Hi i bought this clay pot from Ikea
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/80087711
do you thimk this will work too.
thanks
jeff said...
April 26, 2010 at 7:42 am
Dina: Yes, this looks like it will function just like the one I used on this post: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=566
Melissa said...
May 25, 2010 at 11:52 am
I have had your book for about a week, and we have already enjoyed a dozen loaves! I would really like to try some sandwich bread, but I don’t have a nonstick loaf pan (yet). Could I line a regular loaf pan with parchment and then grease it well? I also have a Pampered Chef stoneware loaf pan–how about that lined with parchment? Thanks!
zoe said...
May 25, 2010 at 7:56 pm
Hi Melissa,
This is exactly how my mom prepares her loaf pans and has had great success with it. I think either one will work with the parchment.
So glad you are enjoying the book and all the bread! Zoë
Karen said...
July 17, 2010 at 10:27 am
Re: the Romertopf – I have a 23 yr old convection wall oven which seems to be very/too hot, light is broken so reading thermometer requires opening the door (which is a big detriment to the process!), so I just experiment a lot. But also have an older unglazed Romertopf which saves the process, makes wonderful bread. I line the bottom with parchment, spray that with oil, throw in some cornmeal because I like it, and put the cold dough in that to rise. Then preheat the oven for 20 minutes with the lid inside (not soaked). Just before slashing the bread I spritz the top of the dough very well with water, then get an assistant to help with opening and closing the oven door while putting the hot Romertopf lid on the base and sliding it all back in. Then remove the lid for the last 15 minutes of baking. Hope that helps someone – I just recently discovered this website and it has been very helpful to me!
zoe said...
July 17, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Hi Karen,
Thank you for stopping by, it sounds like you have a great system in use!
Enjoy all the bread! Zoë
Dee said...
July 22, 2010 at 11:49 am
I have an extra PC La Cloche for sale. They are retired pieces and hard to find.
I have been using one for while and love it.
Here’s cool tip to make soft crust loaves: wrap the loaf in a plastic grocery bag as soon as it comes out of the oven to cool. I do this for pumpernickel and marbled rye
jeff said...
July 22, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Dee: Yep, that should work– you could do the same thing by putting the bread in a closed pot. Jeff
Maria said...
March 31, 2009 at 5:29 pm
We will have to try this method next time around. We are actually baking a loaf right now:) LOVE IT!