Tara said...
December 21, 2007 at 9:25 am

Hi, I have a question about the non airtight container. I have a tupperware container I’m thinking of using. Should I leave the lid ajar and not fasten it all the way? Or seal it and assume it is not airtight? Thanks so much. Tara

jeff said...
December 21, 2007 at 9:52 am

Hi Tara: You’re the person we met at Common Good Books, and I’ve been on your blog, yes? Thanks for the question. When we said “airtight,” we just didn’t want people sealing it up in a glass jar (which, theoretically, could explode from trapped carbon dioxide pressure). If you’re using a plastic container, it’s not going to explode, but in the early phases of the rise, the top could pop off. So I just break the seal a little and it’s fine. After a day or so, I usually can close it completely without a problem.

Thanks, Tara, and happy baking! Jeff

Tara said...
December 22, 2007 at 7:08 am

Jeff, yes, and yes. Thanks so much for leaving me a note there! Also, many thanks for answering my question, I appreciate it. I wish you both continued success. Tara

Michelle Richardson said...
December 26, 2007 at 6:15 pm

My copy is on its way…until then I’m using the basic recipe that was printed in our local paper. My question is can you use a smaller amount of instant yeast? its just what I happen to have on hand.
Thanks, Michelle

zoe said...
December 26, 2007 at 9:17 pm

Hi Michelle,

Yes! Instant yeast seems to work equally as well as regular granulated yeast.

Thanks and enjoy the book when it comes!

Zoe

Sheri said...
January 6, 2008 at 8:56 am

I just baked my first loaf from your book and am totally enamored with the technique. I used SAS instant yeast since I have a lot on hand right now.

One thing I noticed is that this bread (I made the European Peasant Bread) has a somewhat dense crumb. I don’t mind, but the photo in this post shows nice big holes – is that a result of the lower amount of yeast?

jeff said...
January 6, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Sheri:
There are a number of factors that can influence hole size; if you’re going for larger holes, here are some things you can try:

1. “Age” the dough for longer, at least seven days. As natural acids build up from the yeast, they weaken the gluten strands, which will offer less resistance to carbon dioxide bubbles. So the holes will grow.

2. Consider a lower-bran rye, or less rye and whole wheat in the Peasant Loaf recipe. Bran in both products makes for a “tighter” crumb as you’ve been experiencing. One-quarter cup each of rye and whole wheat makes a nice peasant effect, with a moister, more “custardy” crumb with larger holes.

3. Mix your dough a little wetter (maybe an extra quarter-cup of water. The slacker the dough, the less resistance to expanding carbon dioxide bubbles. Be aware that your loaves may spread sideways more than you’d like.

Hey, Sheri, did I just comment on your blog too? Thanks for checking in here. Jeff

Sheri said...
January 7, 2008 at 9:42 pm

Thanks for the advice, Jeff. Yep, you commented on my blog. You’re EVERYWHERE!

I baked my second loaf and it’s more custard-y already, only three days after I made the dough. We’re pigs, we’ve been eating a lot of bread.

Could I use white whole wheat instead of traditional whole wheat?

zoe said...
January 8, 2008 at 9:52 am

Hi Sheri,

I love the King Arthur White Whole Wheat and would definitely recommend you try substitute it for traditional WW flour in our recipes. Let me know what you think. Check out our post on the subject in the November archive.
Thanks, Zoe

jeff said...
January 8, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Sheri: I’m everywhere that there’s bread, anyway. Let us know how you make out with white whole wheat.
Jeff

Barbara said...
January 9, 2008 at 6:23 am

Just got your book for Christmas and have made the basic recipe several times now with great success. It’s a very handy technique, even though I love to bake and knead the traditional way. Since I am a sourdough enthusiast, I decided to try a little experiment. When my first batch of “ready to go dough” was almost depleted, I used it to start another batch. I followed the directions for dissolving the yeast and flour in warm water, then added the left over dough in small pieces. I let that soften in the warm water mixture for a bit, then added the flour a cup at a time, blending well. I like the slightly sour flavor, which I expect will grow over time, and also the fact that I am starting a new batch that tastes like it has had a chance to “age” a bit. I can also use less yeast that way. Thanks for your information and enthusiasm. Great bread deserves it!

zoe said...
January 9, 2008 at 7:25 am

Hi Barbara,

Thank you for the feedback and tip! I’m so glad you are enjoying the book and the bread. The wonderful thing about making bread is the variety you can produce from different methods. I too add the last of my “old” batch to the new to enhance the flavor of the fresh batch. It gives it so much more character, right away.

Thanks again! Zoe

Sheri said...
January 12, 2008 at 9:08 pm

I’m looking forward to trying Barbara’s method.

We’re talking about you on the Fine Cooking forum! http://forums.taunton.com/tp-cookstalk/messages?msg=38064.43

zoe said...
January 12, 2008 at 9:52 pm

Hi Sheri,

Thanks for sharing our bread with so many people, we are thrilled that you are having such a great experience with it. I’ll join you on Fine Cooking to see what people have to say. Your feedback is really helpful.

Thanks, Zoe

Sheri said...
January 13, 2008 at 12:23 am

You’re welcome – I really just want to share the find with people who love to cook. Actually, I listen to The Splendid Table, which is how it ended up on my Christmas list. And thanks for posting to Fine Cooking. I know everyone there loves to hear from one of the authors. And now, I can’t wait to try the naan!

zoe said...
January 13, 2008 at 7:49 am

Hi Sheri,

Lynne Rosetto Kasper is a wonderful woman and a great cook, I love her show! So glad you heard the piece we did on the splendid table. Thanks again for spreading the word. I can’t wait to hear about the naan. My kids will be up soon and we will try the brioche version!
To be continued…

Zoe

Lindy said...
January 13, 2008 at 5:16 pm

I’ve baked about ten loaves using your methods and recipes, but I’m finding that the dough just isn’t rising as much as I think it should, nor is there very much oven spring. This becomes even more evident the older the dough becomes. Any suggestions?

karen said...
January 13, 2008 at 6:34 pm

Jeff and Zoe..I just viewed your amazing video showing you making your 5 minute bread and I have a question about adding salt with the yeast. I understand that doing that retards the yeast and with the low-yeast method, would that be a problem?

zoe said...
January 13, 2008 at 7:32 pm

Hi Lindy,

Thanks for trying out the bread, now lets try to figure out how to get you some more oven spring. I’ll need to know a little more about your experience baking with our method. Are you using the full amount of yeast we call for in in the book or are you doing this lower yeast version. You should get a nice spring with both but you will have to treat the dough differently depending on the amount of yeast.

I’ve come up against a couple of people who had their yeast fail. It is rare that a package of yeast will not work if it is within the expiration date, but I’ve had it happen recently. You may want to proof your yeast once, just to make sure.

The last thought I have, without getting more info from you, is your oven temperature. Are you using an oven thermometer? If your oven is running cool it will impact the rise of your bread.

OK one more idea, the size of the loaf. If you are making your loaves larger than 1# then they will require a longer rest.

Let me know if any of this sounds like it might help. If not, we’ll keep at it until we figure something out.

Thanks, Zoe

jeff said...
January 13, 2008 at 7:42 pm

Lindy: There’s one other thing I’ve heard from experienced bakers who try our method and find it isn’t rising as much as they like. It often turns out that they’re handling the dough too much and knocking all the gas out of it. You really must not knead in our method. And if you overdo the “cloaking” step, you will, in effect, be kneading. In the book, we say 30 to 60 seconds of shaping and “cloaking” but experienced people can probably do it in 10 seconds. Just a few turns, pulling the dough around to its bottom. The less handling, the more rise.

Could that be what’s going on?

Jeff

zoe said...
January 13, 2008 at 7:42 pm

Hi Karen,

The yeast and the salt are in contact for such a short period of time that it will make no difference to your dough. If you are nervous about it you can add the yeast to the water and the salt with the flour.

Enjoy and let us know how it comes out!

Thanks, Zoe

jeff said...
January 13, 2008 at 7:44 pm

Karen: we’ve always ignored the prohibition about yeast and salt coming into contact, and the low-yeast method was no exception when I mixed that up. Right now I have a batch going with a half-dose of yeast (compared with the book) and it’s working beautifully. The version in my original post used a really miniscule dose, and took a long time to rise. I’m not seeing such a large difference in the half-dose version, so it might be a good compromise for people who want less yeast flavor.

Jeff

Lindy said...
January 14, 2008 at 11:02 am

To Zoe and Jeff: My yeast is newly purchased; am using the amount in the “regular” recipe, not the low yeast version, and am baking with a brand new Whirlpool natural gas range with AccuBake oven (and use an oven thermometer as well). Now, I do use my KitchenAid to mix the ingredients; also, my house is heated by wood so the air is quite dry, but even using a proofing box with a bowl of hot water inside, I still don’t see much rise. Will try a shorter mixing time and a longer proof time. My digi scale came in so I’ll be able to be more precise in weighing out the dough. BTW, the bread is excellent regardless.

jeff said...
January 14, 2008 at 4:55 pm

Lindy: This is really interesting. You’ve said you’re not getting the “rise” you expect, but you find the bread to be excellent. So here’s what I think is happening. You’re getting expansion of fermentation bubbles, and the volume of your dough is probably increasing (otherwise you’d find it dense and unappealing). But, it’s probably expanding sideways more than traditional, dryer dough. So the result is nice, but the shape is unexpected. You have some options:

1. Bake in a bread pan or a covered, enameled, cast-iron pan. That will prevent sideways expansion and force the bread upwards.

2. Make your dough a touch dryer, just a little more flour. Try a quarter-cup more, keeping everything else the same (including flour brand).

I’m glad to hear you’re liking it though! Thanks for hanging in there with it.

Jeff

Shane McRae said...
January 14, 2008 at 5:05 pm

Hello,
I’m anxiously waiting for my copy of your book from Amazon but in the meantime I’m trying your basic recipe and have a question I couldn’t find an answer to in your question area.
Does it matter what kind of yeast we use? The label on mine says “high activity instant dry yeast”.
Regards,
Shane

Shane McRae said...
January 14, 2008 at 5:13 pm

Please don’t bother responding to my question about yeast. I just didn’t look far enough and I’ve now found that it doesn’t matter what kind of yeast I use.
Thanks,
Shane
P.S.
Can’t wait to receive your book and since I live in Australia I have to wait for the long publishing date and then the long shipping time to Oz.

zoe said...
January 14, 2008 at 6:23 pm

Hi Shane,

We look forward to hearing back from you about the bread you bake. We are also curious about the flour that is available in Australia. Do you know if what is available in stores is comparable to U.S. unbleached all-purpose flour?

Thanks and enjoy the book!

Zoe

Cameron said...
January 15, 2008 at 12:36 pm

Hi, I’m loving the book (letting the dough sit right now for my first sandwich loaf), but I have a question. Have you done any experimenting with making a wheat-free bread?

jeff said...
January 15, 2008 at 1:04 pm

Cameron: Stay tuned, we’ll be working on that in the upcoming year (you’re not the first to ask)!

Jeff

Mike said...
January 15, 2008 at 1:19 pm

It’s very dry where I live in th e desert, so when I leave the dough to rise, I cover it with one of the silicone covers (the ones that just lay on top, not the ones that stretch). They keep the moisture in during the rise, and also allow gas to escape in the fridge. I’ve had those Cambro dough buckets on order for ages (no doubt due to the popularity of the book), so I had to make do with a substitute.

What I want to explore are more whole-grain bread recipes, not just whole-wheat, but other grains as well–especially ones that use little or no white flour.

jeff said...
January 15, 2008 at 2:59 pm

If you use very little white flour, you can end up with dense bread… the white part of wheat flour is where the gluten lives; that’s essential for a nice airy rise. Are you averse to gluten? You can jazz up the rise in a high-bran recipe with vital wheat gluten (VWG) but it all depends on what you’re trying to achieve with your recipe. If you use VWG you won’t be avoiding gluten, if that’s your goal. Jeff

Celene said...
January 16, 2008 at 2:05 am

You two are gods, and have made me a star in my mini-verse. I know I’m not the first to say this, but your recipe/technique can change the course of history (given that the word gets out to enough people.)I’m just blown away, and so is everyone else I share this with. Thank you! for sharing your labor of love with the world. ..Now, my question: I have a lactose-intolerant husband, and I’m pining over the almond creme bread recipes. Can I substitute soy milk, rice milk, or almond milk for the milk in the almond creme recipe? Similarly, what can I use as a tenderizer for the 100% whole wheat sandwhich bread? I don’t understand the chemistry of it. Thanks for any tips/insights.

zoe said...
January 16, 2008 at 8:50 am

Hi Celene,

Thank you! It means a lot to us to hear your feedback and we love that the bread has made a star of you!!!

Yes, you can replace any of those milk alternatives to the almond cream recipe.

I’ve never tested the 100% whole wheat recipe with those milks but I sispect they too would work.

There is good news for your husband. Jeff and I are working on a new book that will address baking bread for people with special diets. Lactose-free, gluten-free and many more. The bad news is that will take us a while, but keeps you eye out for it in the future!

Thank you so much and let us know how your recipes come out!

Zoe

LJCohen said...
January 17, 2008 at 9:34 am

I’ve just discovered your method from yesterday’s article in the Boston Globe. My first batch of half-yeast dough is sitting on my kitchen counter even as I type. I’m an experienced bread baker and I’m looking forward to seeing how this no-knead method works. (Honestly, it seems *too* easy! LOL)

Question–when you halve the yeast, do you also halve the salt to match?

jeff said...
January 17, 2008 at 11:17 am

Thanks LJ! When you halve the yeast, keep the salt the same, or the flavor will be way off. I know what you’re thinking, salt is inhibitory against yeast, but there isn’t enough effect to prevent you from succeeding this way. I’m interested in what drew you to the low-yeast version.

Jeff

zoe said...
January 17, 2008 at 11:24 am

Hi LJ,

One more thing to note about our method, it is best to handle the dough as little as possible. I stress this with you because you are an experienced baker and are used to kneading. Our dough performs best when handles the least, maybe 30 seconds to shape the boule.

Thanks and keep us posted!

Zoe

LJCohen said...
January 17, 2008 at 4:52 pm

Thanks for your quick responses. Just pulled the boule out of the oven. Didn’t wait for it to cool before cutting a piece.

The crust is divine, the crumb with lovely texture. It does need the full amount of salt. Oh well, that’s what salted butter smeared on the bread is for.

I was really amazed that you can form a loaf in just a few seconds of handling.

And Jeff–the reason I wanted to try the lower yeast version is for taste. I don’t like the taste of yeast-heavy breads and am a big fan of sourdough, so leaving the dough to sit for 6+ hours was a worthwhile tradeoff.

I also gave the loaf nearly 2 hours to rise before baking. I must not have used enough corn meal on the paddle because the loaf didn’t want to slide onto the pizza stone. The dough ’smooshed’ a little in the process and I thought I’d end up with a pita bread.

But it recovered and sprang up in the oven.

I don’t think this will entirely replace my regular bread baking (there’s something emotionally satisfying about kneeding dough), but it does make having a fresh baguette or boule for dinner feesible on a work day.

Many thanks.

jeff said...
January 17, 2008 at 8:16 pm

LJ: If you do a prolonged rise on a pizza peel, you need to use a lot of cornmeal or other “lubricant” on the board, or you’ll get sticking as you experienced. With the 40 minute rise, you have a little more leeway. But as you’ve seen, the low-yeast version may do a little better with a longer rise.

Jeff

Rochelle Mazze said...
January 17, 2008 at 10:32 pm

Hi Jeff,
I met you at Cooks of Crocus Hill before the holidays–I’m the lady from NYC; we are here in MN about 20 yrs. We saw your recipes first in the NYTimes and tried the basic recipe a few weeks ago. We LOVE it! We have been baking for all our friends! We now own your book. Thanks also for the errata sheet–some further questions on the babka–do you mean 2 tbsp yeast (I think that equals 3 packets). Is the dough always refrigerated before using (should I just ignore statement “only 40 minutes rest if using fresh, unrefrigerated dough.” hanks so much–rochelle

zoe said...
January 17, 2008 at 10:58 pm

Hi Rochelle,

I’m Zoe, Jeff’s co-author and I just wanted to address your Babka questions. We seem to have really made a mess of the Tablespoons vs packets throughout the book. I’m sorry for the confusion. Yes, you are right 2 Tablespoons is closer to (2 1/2 packets).

I’m sure you saw the note on the errata sheet about the flour being 7 1/2 cups and not 6.

Lastly, this dough is so enriched with egg yolks and butter that it is really much too soft to use before being refrigerated.

Once all those adjustments are made it is really a spectacular bread. I just recently made it to bring to a radio host and she was in love with it.

I thank you for trying it and look forward to hearing your review!

Thanks, Zoe

jeff said...
January 18, 2008 at 5:23 am

Hi Rochelle: I love to hear from other NY transplants (I think we moved here the same week!). Glad that the bread is working for you; sounds like Zoe’s worked out your Babka questions. That is a tasty one. Jeff

LJCohen said...
January 18, 2008 at 1:04 pm

FYI–I posted my experience in baking this bread on my blog (www.ljcbluemuse.blogspot.com) along with links to this site and to amazon for the book.

I hope it’s alright–I posted the modifications I made to your master recipe as printed in the Chicago Tribune article. (Using 3/4 Tablespoon yeast and using half whole wheat flour).

Please let me know if I’ve run afoul of copyright et al and I’ll remove the recipe.

Thanks!

jeff said...
January 18, 2008 at 4:37 pm

Lisa: Our basic recipe is all over the web, and the truth is that putting forth the basic recipe into the universe gives people a way to try something that violates their expectations without having to fork over a chunk of money. That’s the new reality for intellectual properties– music’s gone through the same trauma. So people try us for free, and if they like it they reward us by buying the book for all its variations. If they don’t, nothing lost. If it weren’t for the web, we might never have gotten so many people to try something so new.

Works for us.

So thank you!

Jeff
PS: from a technical copyright standpoint, recipes are only protected for their actual word for word text, not for the intellectual concepts contained in the recipe. Since you didn’t use our exact words, all is well.

Mike said...
January 19, 2008 at 10:10 am

Thanks for the advice about using whole grain flour, Jeff. My last batch I used the basic recipe with half WW flour and half white, used milk for half the water, and 1/4 c. honey–I was pretty pleased with the result. I’ll try my next batch with the white whole wheat. I have no problem with gluten–it’s just that white flour is missing a lot of the nutrition lost in milling. I wanted to make my own bread to improve on what’s available store-bought (even from my co-op), both the taste and the nutrients. Even early on, I think I’m coming out ahead.

jeff said...
January 19, 2008 at 8:06 pm

Thanks Mike. The other thing I should have told you was that when you increase the whole wheat fraction beyond about 1 to 1 1/2 cups out of the 6 1/2 cups of flour that our basic recipe calls for, you need to start increasing the water content. Not quite so much with KAF’s “white” whole wheat product, but certainly w/traditional WW. Once you get to about 1/2 WW out of the total flour volume, you need to increase the water by about a quarter cup, or even a little more. The dough should look about as “loose” as usual or it won’t store well and may be dry from the first loaves you bake. Jeff

Rick DiBello said...
January 22, 2008 at 2:19 pm

For the most part I mill my own whole wheat, seven grain, and rye flours, and I’d like to use your technique with my home-milled flours. I just tried a 100% whole wheat recipe and the resulting dough was MUCH wetter than I expected, so I added more flour and let it rest for about 3 hours. It rose fine, but I haven’t baked a loaf from it yet.

My question is how should I adapt the quantities in your recipes, using my home-milled flours, as they’re quite a bit more airy than store bought?

Also, I have had a bit of a problem with larger loaves not holding their shape in the oven. Instead of expanding into the cut areas, I sometimes get bulges out of the sides of the loaf. How can I protect against that?

Thanks VERY much for developing this technique. I LOVE it!!!! I’ve never had time to do anything but bread machine loaves in the past, and this technique gives us bread that seems in some ways to be a gift from the heavens. Thank you, thank you!!

Rick

zoe said...
January 22, 2008 at 6:54 pm

Hi Rick,

I love that you are grinding your own flours, it is something I’d like to do more of.

I’m not exactly sure how to guide you on this without knowing the particular flour. I’m afraid you may have to enter into a phase of trial and error???

As for the larger loaves expanding and having crazy oven spring where you don’t expect or want it. I think there are two things going on. When you are dealing with a really large loaf you have to let it rest on the peel for a considerably longer time. It needs to have time to get warmed up before going into the oven or these odd protrusions will spring off the loaf.

The other factor is how you slash the dough before baking. Your cuts need to be 1/4″ deep so that the dough will open up and expand where you want it to and not elsewhere.

I hope this helps. I wish I had more info on the milled flour. If I find something out I’ll get back to you!

Thanks, Zoe

Rick DiBello said...
January 24, 2008 at 2:30 pm

Thanks, Zoe! Your comments about allowing additional resting time make sense. I’ll try that in the future.

Regarding the flour I’m milling, I’ve been experimenting with various mixtures. All have as their predominant ingredient hard white spring wheat, supplemented by a small amount of hard red spring wheat, seven grain berries, rye berries, or whatever, depending on the bread I’m baking.

The grinding process produces an airier, lighter mix of flour than what you find in store bought flours.

I’m guessing that if I could measure by weight, instead of by cup, I could probably get pretty close to the proper result. When you specify a cup of flour, what do you expect it to weigh, in grams or ounces?

Thanks again for your help and insight with this; I really appreciate it.

Rick

jeff said...
January 24, 2008 at 2:45 pm

Rick:

Best as we can tell, one cup of commercial all-purpose, around 10 to 11% protein, measured with the scoop and sweep method weighs 5 ounces or 142 grams. Jeff

Becky said...
January 28, 2008 at 12:53 pm

I coveted this book since hearing you on The Splendid Table, and my DH gave me one for Christmas. Haven’t bought a loaf of bread since then, and my kids say they are “ruined” for other bread forever! Thank you for putting bread-baking where it belongs, back into the hands of busy home bakers. Bread is made every day in homes all over the world with the humblest of resources and shouldn’t be made so complicated that people think they “can’t” do it. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Becky said...
January 28, 2008 at 12:58 pm

Now that you have me making bread everyday and since it really does take less than five minutes each day, I find myself playing with the recipes. I used a lump of “old dough” from the end of a batch, and was thrilled to see that I needed no added yeast at all! It did add to the flavor, as Zoe said. Because yeast is so expensive these days, that’s good to know. Do you take it a step further and use a natural leaven?

jeff said...
January 28, 2008 at 1:12 pm

You’re welcome Becky! (I assume it’s the same Becky in both posts).

We worked on a naturally-risen version of our recipe, but ultimately found that it took a little more attention than we thought was right for this kind of book. Keep in mind that what you’ve done is a little different than using wild yeast. You’re using a commercial yeast culture that, over time, will be at least partially replaced by wild yeast. My experiments with natural levain were with wild yeast, but I’m intrigued to try it your way. I have to admit that my experiments were a touch unreliable for stored dough. Jeff

Jessie said...
January 31, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Can I use beer & vinegar instead of water?

jeff said...
January 31, 2008 at 7:09 pm

Jessie: We haven’t tested our recipes with beer and vinegar additions. There’s been a lot of interest lately in using those two ingredients to add flavor notes that sourdough bakers expect. But you can’t replace all the water with beer and vinegar. Try swapping out equal parts water for 1/2 tablespoon vinegar, and about 1/8 cup of beer. Let us know how it turns out!

Jeff

jeff said...
January 31, 2008 at 7:14 pm

CORRECTION: Sorry Jessie, I meant 2 tablespoons vinegar, and 1/2 cup beer.

Sorry, Jeff

Barbara said...
February 6, 2008 at 8:35 am

Hi,

This may not be the correct thread for my question, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there is a difference between semolina and semolina flour, and if there is a preferred product for breadmaking. The products I’ve tried all seem a little bit grainy, and they lack a real flour consistency. Is this the way it’s supposed to be?

Thanks for any help,
Barbara

jeff said...
February 6, 2008 at 8:44 am

Barbara:

“Semolina” and “semolina flour” are alternative names… but the best semolina for bread is labeled “durum.” The stuff labeled “semolina” or “semolina flour” from Asian and Indian markets is pretty coarse. If that’s all you can get, keep the percentage semolina fairly low. I got nice durum from King Arthur http://www.kingarthurflour.com. Confusing, I know.

Jeff

Barbara said...
February 6, 2008 at 8:46 am

Thanks, Jeff, you’ve really helped. I was thinking of ordering from KA but wanted to be sure I had the right product.

Barbara

cabronsito said...
February 6, 2008 at 10:50 am

Hi Jeff!
You know your master recipe is getting famous in the German blogcommunity, don´t you? Hope your book is selling as well.
I am a German guy. With a little handicap. No, no, it´s not my little boy with Down Syndrom. It´s about cooking and baking in Mexico. That´s where I live. And things are quite different here. Some of the hints I found over German blogs are not useful in this country. But I tried.
And it worked.
Not perfect yet, but I´m happy about the result of my first shot.
I just wanted to thank you for sharing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barbara said...
February 6, 2008 at 11:33 am

Hi Jeff,

I wanted to provide a follow-up on the excellent information you gave me. I was all set to do a mail order, but because I now knew what I was looking for and what questions to ask, I decided to first pay a visit to our local Italian foods specialty store. After I described what I needed, they were able to show me the difference between semolina flour and durum. You were right — durum is the preferred product for bread baking. It is almost powdery and more closely resembles wheat flour, compared to the slight grittiness of even the finest semolina. I was able to buy in bulk and save shipping, too. So thanks again for steering me in the right direction.

Barbara

jeff said...
February 9, 2008 at 8:54 pm

Cabronsito: Thanks for your comments. I wish my German was better, because I can’t really read all the comments on those German blogs. I’m really happy that it’s catching on a bit over there. Bread in Germany is great, even ordinary supermarkt stuff, so I’m really flattered. Now Mexico on the other hand, is not exactly a big bread country. So it’s a perfect place to try to make your own! Thanks,
Jeff

Barbara: When you baked off the semolina labeled as durum, how was it? Don’t keep me in suspense here? Jeff

Colleen said...
February 10, 2008 at 2:00 pm

Hello Zoe and Jeff,
You may recognize my email moniker from Cooks Talk. Couldn’t figure out how to post to Zoe over there, so came to your web page. Yesterday I made half the recipe posted by Deanna, i.e.:
5oz KA white whole wheat flour
9-1/2 oz KA bread flour
11-1/2 oz 100F water
1 packet Active Dry yeast
1/4 oz Morton’s kosher salt.
The result was tasty, but not spectacular and not what I call artisan, i.e. not holey.
I let it rise in the fridge for 7 hours per Zoe’s suggestion,then baked on parchment on pizza stone in oven for 30 minutes at 450F.
The dough was quite dry, (I wouldn’t call it loose),easy to shape, but didn’t have the rise I expected. Th finished boule was about 6-1/2″ wide and 2-1/2″ high. It did most of its rising in the fridge and that within the first couple of hours. Some but not much in the oven. Any comments or suggestions?
Next time I plan to halve your recipe from the NY Times “Simple Crusty Bread”. Is that your Master Recipe? I don’t yet have your book. I plan to use 3-1/4 cups KA AP flour, 1 pkt active dry yeast, 1/2 tbsp kosher salt & 1-1/2 cups water. Do you think that will be ok? I am going out to get a s/s bowl to cover the boule in the oven rather than using a pizza stone and water in the broiler pan. I did like the crust that I got when I used Jim Lahey’s recipe(full quantity)and used a cast iron dutch oven, but like your flavor far better so I hope a bowl will produce the same result.
Again, any recommendations?
And thanks so much for your help.

zoe said...
February 10, 2008 at 4:09 pm

Hi Colleen,

The dough you describe is much drier than what we have in the book. It will produce a much tighter crumb than our bread and will not store as well.

If you are using KA all-purpose, KA white whole wheat or bread flour you will need to increase the amount of water. All of those flours absorb much more water than the average all-purpose flour that we call for in our recipes.

Having said that you will get a wonderful bread using any of the above mentioned, but only if you increase the hydration.

So when you go to try your next batch this is a good place to start:

3 1/4 cups KA AP
1 pkt yeast
1/2 Tbls salt
1 2/3 cups water (more water because you are using the KA flour)

The bowl works really well if you bake it on a pizza stone and then you don’t need the broiler tray.

Thank you for checking in with us. I hope this dough is more to your liking. Please stay in touch!

Zoë

Patti said...
May 16, 2008 at 9:18 pm

“…but I have a question. Have you done any experimenting with making a wheat-free bread?

01/15/08 1:04 pm jeff said…
Cameron: Stay tuned, we’ll be working on that in the upcoming year (you’re not the first to ask)!”

———
Jeff, I saw this post was very excited to read it! My son-in-law has celiac disease and is always on the look-out for a good and easy recipe for bread. My daughter is making herself half recipes of your bread and her hubby is jealous — ha!

I’ve made several different types of gluten-free breads for him and have experimented quite a bit. One disadvantage to being on a gluten-free diet is that most bread recipes have absolutely no fiber and are very high carb. I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with! Is this going to be in a new book?

Patti

jeff said...
May 16, 2008 at 11:12 pm

Patti:

The challenge with gluten-free breads is that there’s little structure to support the rise. So heavy, high-fiber ingredients tend to make for a heavy loaf. Most of the gluten-free experiments we’ve done have been like you said– high carb and low fiber.

Well, we’re still working on it! Stay tuned, but it will be quite a while. Our next book will mainly focus on whole grain breads (including wheat) but assuming we’re happy with the results, we’ll probably include a few gluten-free recipes.

Jeff

Patti said...
May 17, 2008 at 8:04 am

“The challenge with gluten-free breads is that there’s little structure to support the rise. ”

Don’t I know it! Almost all the recipes use eggs, xanthan gum and starchy flours to make up for the absense of gluten.

What is interesting, the consistency of a gluten-free dough is much like the dough in your master bread recipe (only thinner). Usually you have to spoon the dough into a loaf pan and shape it as best you can in the pan. The real downside is with the eggs and rice flours, you can’t keep the dough in the fridge for an extended period.

I have a Gluten-free Brown Rice bread recipe that I use most of the time. I occasionally add ground flax for extra fiber and nutrition. I continute to experiment with the brown rice recipe as my gauge.

Patti

jeff said...
May 17, 2008 at 2:57 pm

Patti: If there are eggs, I’d agree that 5 days is the max. But aren’t some of the rice-based recipes out there egg-free? In which case you can go over a week. Jeff

Irina said...
July 25, 2008 at 10:14 am

Thank you for making tasty bread baking accessible to lazy people!

jeff said...
July 25, 2008 at 12:09 pm

You’re welcome! Don’t think of yourself as “lazy,” just that you want to have great flavors but you need to prioritize other things at the moment.

Thanks for writing, and thanks for trying our method, it means a lot to us. Jeff

Diane Donohue said...
August 7, 2008 at 3:26 pm

Oh Zoe and Jeff

You have changed our lives! Been making bread since the book arrived a few months ago. Never fails.
Since it’s been a hot summer, bought a Cuisinart Brick Oven to make my bread and don’t have to use any water. Still as delicious as it was when I baked in my regular oven with the water in pan method.
Must be the clay. My husband and I exercise every night so we can enjoy the good bread without guilt. La Dolce Vita!

zoe said...
August 7, 2008 at 6:39 pm

Hi Diane,

Thank you so much for the great note. I am very intrigued by the Brick oven and really want to get my hands on one to try it out.

Thanks, Zoë

Car loans said...
August 13, 2008 at 10:48 am

Very interesting blog, i have added it to my fovourites, greetings

jeff said...
August 13, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Thanks, come visit anytime, and feel free to post questions in any of these spaces. Jeff

Nancy said...
August 20, 2008 at 2:21 pm

I’m sorry if this has already been answered somewhere.
Can you tell me the difference between what you refer to as granulated yeast and instant yeast. The recipes in the book say granulated yeast. I have a new large bag of instant and would like to use that instead. Thanks for any help you can offer.

zoe said...
August 20, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Hi Nancy,

Your yeast will work perfectly. We have tested all kinds of yeast and found that it just doesn’t seem to matter.

Happy baking!

Zoë

Nancy said...
August 21, 2008 at 1:53 pm

Sorry, I should have been more specific. What I was asking, and not very clearly, is about the difference in the amounts used.
In other words, do you know what 1 1/2 T. of your “granulated” yeast is equivalent to in my SAF instant yeast, or is the measurement exactly the same?
Thanks again.

Sue Woodruff said...
October 7, 2008 at 11:36 am

I have a question about King Arthur Flour. I tried the basic recipe with their unbleached all purpose and it wasn’t dry-rather it was blobby and much more gooey (good words?) than regular unbleached flour. It tasted good buy was not as “pretty” as the regular flour. Any thoughts?

jeff said...
October 7, 2008 at 12:04 pm

Sue: KAF all-purpose has more protein than ordinary AP, something on the order of over 11% (compared to 10%). That’s significant. We’ve gotten great results with it. It definitely takes more elbow-grease to get it mixed though, and it almost sounds like it didn’t get quite mixed enough. I bet it evened out as it aged? Or did it last long enough? I mean on the order of 7 days. Jeff

Julia said...
October 23, 2008 at 8:57 am

I try whenever I can to buy my yeast in bulk. Preferably in 1 pound packages, which I can still readily find here in the Midwest. I then store my yeast in the freezer and just use just what I need. It takes me about a year to use up all the yeast stored in the freezer.

I have found over the years that yeast can be very touchy even if you do everything right. So I always try to let the yeast dissolve in water first to make sure that it is still active. I also read somewhere that a tiny bit of vitamin C or ascorbic acid makes the yeast very, very happy. I have played with this by adding pill scrapings or a small amount of orange juice in a sweet roll recipe. The yeast does get very, very happy.

I thought that I would share this recipe because I know that other “experimenters” excuse me I meant bakers out there would like try it. This could be interesting added to sour dough’s to add another layer of flavor.

This was given to me about twenty years ago by Reni’ who lived on a boat that dock near Huntington Beach, CA. She also told me that her Aunt first gave her the recipe, which she found quite useful as money had to stretch a long way for her and her family to keep living and enjoying life on the boat, which she just loved.

Yeast cakes

2 cups water (warm)
1 cup of sugar
2-3 packages of yeast
2 cups of all-purpose flour (may substitute cooked and cooled mashed potatoes in part or whole for the flour)

Use more all-purpose flour for rolling out the dough.

Dissolve sugar then the yeast in warm water and let set till bubbly. Add the flour and let set until it sours. Add more flour until you can roll it out and cut it into cakes. Set out to let dry 3 to 10 days. Turn the cakes over to even out drying. Do not use heat.
Store in a container for up to 6 months in the refrigerator.
May be used as starter to make more yeast cakes.

Kathrin said...
November 19, 2008 at 4:09 am

The first couple of batches of bread came out very well. But now my bread tends to have a dense crumb with a some very large holes. Also the crumb is a bit wet after baking (although I have increased the flour by a quarter of a cup as recommended), and the crust is very dark. What am I doing wrong?

jeff said...
November 19, 2008 at 5:50 am

Kathrin: I can’t figure out what could be different. Are you using different flour or other ingredients? Have you checked your oven temperature? I’m assuming you’ve been working with a single recipe this whole time? Jeff

Wendy Meguess said...
November 26, 2008 at 5:36 pm

Hi,

I just got my “Mother Earth” magazine with your article on bread making. I have been experimenting with whole wheat sourdough (no added yeast) in the bread machine and have found that I can get a good rise without giving the bread much attention. I put in the starter and ingredients, knead the bread in the machine, then reset to bake only. I let it stay in the machine overnight, then bake one hour. It is the easiest sourdough and rises better than I have seen. The only thing it lacks is the chewy crusty outer layer, which brings me to my question: can this minimal-step technique be modified to use with the artisan crusty bread technique? I wonder if you can keep the mixed bread in the fridge, shape and rise overnight, then bake?

Thanks!
Wendy

jeff said...
November 26, 2008 at 9:31 pm

Hi Wendy, welcome to the site. I’ve done what you’re describing, and yes, it works. It’s a bit too temperamental for our books, but if you’re experienced with natural yeast (from the air), you should be able to pull it off. I agree that you can’t get such a great crust in a bread machine, which is what put Zoe and I on this quest in the first place.

I successfully stored wild-yeast dough in the fridge and it lasted about 7 days (not 14 as in some of the recipes in our book). You need to keep the final consistency of the dough at about the level of our Master Recipe.

You’ll have to play with the resting time; that will depend on ambient temperature and exactly what your mix of wild yeast and bacteria is.

Let us know how you make out! Jeff

PS: I wasn’t using all that much whole wheat… you might need vital wheat gluten as well, see our post on that at http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142

Wendy Meguess said...
November 29, 2008 at 12:16 am

Thanks for the response Jeff. I’ll give it a try!

Di Sudduth said...
December 30, 2008 at 10:40 am

Hi!

I had the most WONDERFUL bread at a holiday party last week and was thrilled to discover your techniques and recipes! I’ve now got your book and made my first loaf this morning. Even with my first-timer mistakes it tastes GREAT. I’m sure it will only improve as I correct my mistakes. I’ve already started bragging to my friends and can’t wait to bake bread for everyone I know!

I’ve also purchased a book for one of my dear bread-loving friends and wanted to ask a question on her behalf. She bakes a LOT of bread but will often substitute rice or spelt flours for all/part of the AP flour in a recipe as she’s mildly sensitive to wheat and likes to limit her exposure if possible. Have you done any experiments with spelt or rice flours? Any changes to your techniques that you might have discovered?

Thanks for bringing bread back into my life!

Di

jeff said...
December 30, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Di: Thanks for the kind words. The breads are tastier as the dough stores longer, so you’ll see that soon.

Rice or spelt are fine so long as you keep them to the limits we have in the book (about 20% spelt or rice per recipe). If you go much beyond that, you need to adjust, usually with more water. Beyond 50% and you’ll need vital wheat gluten http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142. We get into this in detail in our second book, dealing with whole grains and non-wheat flours, but the book won’t be out till 12/09. Jeff

Di Sudduth said...
December 30, 2008 at 4:26 pm

Jeff,

Thanks for the response, and the page-reference! I’ll be sure to pass the word along to my friend. She’s going to LOVE your book, as do I! Will be looking forward to the next book, but no worries on the wait. Between all the options in the current book and all the tips on the website I’ll have PLENTY to keep me busy for the next year!

Brought my first small test loaf to work for breakfast and lunch and several coworkers are asking when I’ll be bringing in enough for everyone. Answer: soon!

di

jeff said...
December 30, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Great Di, thanks for sharing all the fun tidbits!

Paul LaCaparia said...
March 13, 2009 at 2:33 pm

I just received Carls sourdough starter in the mail. Can you tell me how the starter should be prepared to be used. I have no clue what to do with it since this is my first time to try making the bread. Thank You.

jeff said...
March 15, 2009 at 9:24 am

Paul: I’m not familiar with this starter you mention. I bet it can be used in addition to the yeast we call for in our recipes. Usually these products have you making a slurry and adding it into the breads liquid ingredients. Usually they don’t have much rising power, so you need commercial yeast too, as in our recipes. And per this post, you can decrease the amt of yeast– rising times increase.

Kim Hawley said...
March 17, 2009 at 6:07 pm

I was introduced to your technique and wonderful book at a two day Artisan Bread Workshop at my local Sur la Table (well, given two days we did lots of other things too!) But your concept really resonated with all students. Congratulations on a wonderful piece of work. I have successfully used the basic recipe but am looking for much more of a sourdough flavor (even more than aging of the basic recipe provides). I am a big fan of the Lalvain du Jour Starters one can buy from the King Arthur website. I’m wondering if your concept can be adapted to incorporating a Starter such as this? I am planning to spend 3 months in the Sierras this summer in a fairly remote cabin with a large extended family that are sourdough NUTS and I’m doing most of the cooking! So, any help will be much appreciated by many people (esp me .

zoe said...
March 17, 2009 at 8:01 pm

Hi Kim,

I’m very interested to know more about the class you took at Sur la Table, sounds interesting!

You can add a sourdough starter to our dough to either replace the yeast or just augment it and jump start the flavor. If you replace the yeast with your starter you need to allow the dough to rest for a great deal longer than we recommend in the book. It can take several hours.

Have a wonderful trip and let us know how the bread comes out!

Thanks, Zoë

Kim Hawley said...
March 18, 2009 at 8:40 am

Zoe:
Thanks so much for getting back with me so quickly! The instructions that come with the Lalvain du Jour Starters call for a ratio of 1 part starter (in the sponge) to 2 parts yeast (in the dough). Would you recommend that I apply the same ratio working with your recipe? Do you think leaving it out overnight would do the trick on the rising or do you think the dough might spoil if given that long? (The sponge in the original recipe rises at room temp for 18 – 20 hours)

The class at Sur la Table was great, it’s a new offering for their cooking school. I found it at the Los Gatos, CA location and it was taught by local chef Mimi Pass. Don’t know if other locations are offering as well. The class was completely full (as you might imagine) and Mimi brought a copy of your book in. My guess is that every student rushed out and bought it, I know I did!

jeff said...
March 18, 2009 at 2:11 pm

Kim: That ratio sounds fine, go for it! Our dough doesn’t spoil if left overnight, but you can decrease our yeast if you’re planning to do that. Maybe cut it by half.

We’ve got a Sur la Table in our area but they aren’t teaching at it yet…

Kimberly said...
March 27, 2009 at 6:17 pm

I am anxiously waiting the initial 2 hours before I am in heaven, lol. I do have a question. After the initial 2 to 5 hour time frame can I immediately use the dough? Or will I have to shape it and wait the 40 minutes for it to rise? My son is checking the clock!!!! Lol, thanks

zoe said...
March 27, 2009 at 9:03 pm

Hi Kimberly,

If you use the dough right away, without refrigerating it you still have to let it rest once shaped, but as long. The handling of the dough and shaping it will knock some of the air bubbles out of the dough adn you need to allow then to be restored. In warm dough this happens much faster than cold refrigerated dough.

If you used a low yeast version then this can take much longer than the master recipe as written in the book.

Thanks, enjoy the bread!!!

Zoë

Marge said...
April 24, 2009 at 7:02 am

First time with your recipe and found the dough a bit “runny” I used the exact amts. listed. What do you think the problem was? Can I add more flour to remaining dough?

Marge said...
April 24, 2009 at 7:04 am

P.S. Loved the taste even if it was a bit on the flat-shape side!

zoe said...
April 24, 2009 at 9:29 pm

Hi Marge,

What kind of flour are you using?

Did you use a scoop and sweep method of measuring the flour? If you spoon the flour into the measuring cup you will end up with much less flour, which will make the dough “runny” and hard to work with.

Let me know and we can take it from there.

Thanks! Zoë

Molly said...
April 28, 2009 at 11:59 am

I know that you say any type of yeast will work with this bread, but what about quick/instant/rapid rise yeast?

zoe said...
April 28, 2009 at 9:33 pm

Hi Molly,

Yes, we have even baked it with quick/instant/rapid rise yeast and found that it makes no difference in the dough. The initial rise may move along more quickly, but after it stores for a day it doesn’t act any differently than other yeasts.

Enjoy, Zoë

Erika Danson said...
May 10, 2009 at 8:52 pm

I bought your book, and am unclear how I can use my sourdough starter using your methods, and not using commercial yeast. I did read your comment that the dough should only be kept for 7 days. If I go with your basic recipe, how much starter should I use instead of the yeast, and will that affect the amount of water used? I like my bread to taste very sour.

jeff said...
May 11, 2009 at 8:15 am

Erika: Substitute a cup and a half of active starter (ie., replenished and allowed to re-expand) for an equivalent amount of water and flour. For the starters I’ve experimented with, they are about half water and half flour by volume, so this means that the swap is for 3/4 cup of water and 3/4 cup of flour. Adjust to give a final consistency as in our videos: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63

Allow for significantly longer resting times after shaping– figure on about 1.5 hours.

Nancy Sanders said...
May 16, 2009 at 10:40 pm

Hi! I have 8 kids, love to bake bread, but need to do so in large volume! Have you ever tried your method in large quantities? Could I do a large amount of dough in a food-service size container?

jeff said...
May 17, 2009 at 6:23 am

Nancy: I usually double everything, so sure, go ahead and do whatever amount you want.

Cathy Wagner said...
May 18, 2009 at 9:42 am

I can’t wait until your 2nd book comes out in 12/09 to get your gluten free recipes!!! any chance you can give us all one to try now?

jeff said...
May 18, 2009 at 10:51 am

Cathy: Thanks for your interest! We put lots of free content on the web, but our publisher tells us it’s probably not a good idea to “scoop” our own book on our website! Stay tuned, release date for the new book is 10/27/09.

Mary said...
May 23, 2009 at 4:47 am

To what extent can you reduce the salt in the recipe without dramatically affecting the result? Must the yeast be reduced if salt is reduced? We don’t like the sourdough flavor, so don’t want to half each.

jeff said...
May 24, 2009 at 8:45 am

See our salt posting: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=139; decrease the salt to your taste. You can decrease the yeast but you don’t have to.

Shirley said...
June 5, 2009 at 3:48 am

I don’t see what oven temperature to use and how long to cook. Also, does the dough have to set in the refrig for 2 weeks or is that the length of time the dough is good for? Thank you so much.

jeff said...
June 5, 2009 at 5:39 am

Bake at 450 for about 30 minutes, with steam. The dough is good for up to 2 weeks.

tc said...
June 8, 2009 at 3:31 pm

What modifications would be necessary for making your bread recipes at elevations over 7000 feet? I am in Santa Fe, NM and it is not only at high elevation but an extremely dry climate sometimes less than 12% humidity. Many thanks for your help!

zoe said...
June 8, 2009 at 4:17 pm

Hi tc,

Here is a post about high altitude baking. Be sure to read through the comments to get lots of tips from other bakers who have been playing with this method at high altitudes!

Thanks, Zoë

jeff said...
June 9, 2009 at 7:22 am

OK, here’s that URL Zoe meant to provide: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144

H Lynnea said...
June 23, 2009 at 7:57 pm

I don’t have a question, but a comment. I first heard about your book through a posting you approved for Instructables (http://www.instructables.com/id/Artisan_Bread_in_Five_Minutes_a_Day/). The poster encouraged everyone to go get your book, after tring the master recipe for themselves. Am I ever glad I did. This has to be the easiest bread making I’ve ever seen!
So, I wanted to thank you for allowing this to have been posted on Instructables, and for writing such a wonderful book!

zoe said...
June 23, 2009 at 9:03 pm

Hi H Lynnea,

Thank you for the wonderful note. Enjoy all the bread!

Happy Baking! Zoë

Gina said...
July 21, 2009 at 9:15 am

I see that your new book for healthy bread will be coming out soon. Will you be doing a book for diabetics? I have just recently been looking for diabetic recipes and am learning to use nut meals/flours and coconut flour, as well as whey protein in my cooking and baking. Anyways, I was just wondering if you were planning on working on something like that in the future. I sure do miss homemade bread.
Thanks,
Gina

jeff said...
July 21, 2009 at 10:45 am

Gina: We don’t have a book specifically labeled as being for diabetics, but much in our new book will fit the bill. You probably know that the American Diabetes Association’s latest guidelines endorse the idea that whole grain breads raise glucose more slowly than refined grains, and can actually prevent the development of the disease. We also use some soy flour in some of the recipes. Jeff

Sara said...
October 24, 2009 at 8:41 pm

Hi, I have been using your book quite a bit lately. I just found this post because I am low on yeast. (I will never let that happen again!) I want to make bread for tomorrow and don’t want to go to the store, so this sounds like the perfect time to try the low yeast version. I find that I make one of the recipes for a long time, then get into an experimental phase. This will kick off the next experimental phase.

Lately, the staple bread in our house has been the light whole wheat, 2 pound loaf in a loaf pan. We had some store bought bread around, but my husband finally turned it all into bread crumbs because we were never going to eat it!

Sara

zoe said...
October 24, 2009 at 8:59 pm

Hi Sara,

That is fantastic, I’ll look forward to see what your experimental phase brings! Please stay in touch and let us know.

Thanks, Zoë

Faie said...
November 6, 2009 at 5:01 pm

Hi Zoe,

I just discovered your book and site. I’m very excited to give your methods a try, as I’ve always wanted to bake bread but have previously been too intimitated. But thanks to you, I’m now feeling brave enough to give it a try! ; )

I’m about to mix together your Master Recipe and I’m wondering if doing the approach with less yeast will be better for those who are trying to stay on a low yeast diet. Will less yeast to begin with mean less to end with, or does it all work out to be the same?

Thank you so much for your help and time!

Faie

zoe said...
November 8, 2009 at 12:02 am

Hi Faie,

I’m so pleased that you are baking bread and no longer feel intimidated by the process. Is your concern with commercial yeast? If you are trying to stay on a low commercial yeast diet you may be better off trying the method with a natural yeast sour dough starter. Let us know a little more about your concern and we can try to help you tailor the recipe!

Thanks, Zoë

Faie said...
November 13, 2009 at 11:46 am

Hi Zoe,

Thank you so much for your response.

Actually, the problem is with candida (too much bad yeast, causing digestion problems) and I’m wondering if there’s any way that we can possibly still eat bread! lol!

We’re trying to go on a low sugar and carb diet, because that’s what candida feeds on. So that means really the only grains we can eat are brown rice, millet, quinoa (sp?). And no sugar, carby, or yeasty things are allowed, like bread, root veggies, beer, fruit, etc.

This may be completely absurd or naive, but is there anyway to make bread with rice, millet, and quinoa? Maybe we could cheat a little and use a little yeast. Maybe it would have to be some sort of flat bread, unleavened bread? I’m groping in the dark here! lol!

I hope this makes better sense….

Thanks!
Faie

zoe said...
November 13, 2009 at 8:37 pm

Hi Faie,

All the grains you mentioned are used in the gluten-free breads. The only problem is that the g-f breads still use yeast. Hmmm? It almost sounds like you need to stick to quick breads that use baking soda and baking powder? Something worth exploring for sure!

Zoë

Lydia said...
November 27, 2009 at 9:41 pm

Hi bread people! I’m so glad to hear about this method. However, I’m having some trouble with the dough rising after it comes out of the fridge. The dough puffed up like a champion, making me wonder if we might get lost in it somehow. But after refrigerating, it doesn’t want to do much at all in terms of rising. We’ve tried putting it in a bread pan to hold the sides in, but we still get flatbread. Even letting it rise overnight doesnt help.

I’ve made four attempts now with loaves from that first batch of dough, the last one was the best. In that case I added ww flour AND more yeast, and kneaded, treating the dough as a starter, because the previous 3 attempts seemed super salty (like all the sugars were used up), and were very dense. Suggestions? Might I have killed my yeast somehow?

I’m hopeful!

jeff said...
November 28, 2009 at 4:28 pm

Lydia: Very different experience than what we’ve seen, so first question: any chance you’re using bleached flour for the white-flour part of the recipe, or “light” spelt instead of regular whole wheat (or dark spelt)?

How are you measuring the flour (scoop and sweep is what works)?

How much yeast are you using?

Once we hear back, we’ll take it from there. Jeff

Lydia said...
November 30, 2009 at 12:56 pm

Hi! Wow. Thanks for the quick response!

I used the 6 3 3 13 recipe (cups water, tbsp salt and yeast, and cups unbleached flour). Scoop and sweep on measuring– we’ve been baking for years and always did it like that. I used granulated yeast that is purchased in a jar… The dough was wet after kneading, and literally overflowed the container. I’m used to wholewheat and heavier bread dough, which doesn’t rise so fast and so much, so it was a real surprise to be able to actually see it rising.

To resurrect a boule, after the first 3 from that batch died flat, we kneaded with wholewheat flour, and got a half-risen bread (somewhere halfway between a regular loaf and a flatbread) after about 6 hours of slow slow rising. No spelt, I’m afraid I don’t actually have any spelt flour on hand.

Perhaps I let it rise too much before refrigerating? Or maybe I was handling it too much afterwards?

Thanks again,
–Lydia

zoe said...
November 30, 2009 at 3:11 pm

Hi Lydia,

If you are using the 6-3-3-13 batch, it is not a low yeast version that you are having difficulties with, right? Just so you know, our dough will rise in the container and then collapse and never rise in the container again. It also does not get much rise on the counter while resting, but should have a really nice oven spring.

Are you using whole wheat flour in this recipe? The proportions for the 6-3-3-13 batch are for all-purpose flour and will not work well if you substitute whole wheat, it will be much too dry and will not store well.

The 6 hours of slow, slow rise you mention is in the bucket or once you had formed the loaves? If you let the formed dough rise that long before baking it probably overproofed and that would explain why you never got any oven spring.

Let me know if any of this makes sense for what you are seeing and we can take it from there!

Thanks, Zoë

Dawn said...
December 3, 2009 at 3:09 pm

Hola Jeff y Zoe,
I just wanted to say a big GRACIAS!
I’ve never, ever cooked or kneaded anything before, let alone worked with yeast. Being hispanic, as you know, bread isn’t in our culture naturally.
I’ve watched others do it, but to tell you the truth my worry is the yeast. Yeast is just scary to deal with! Even when I’ve done exactly what the recipe says (I’ve even use a thermometer, so as to be at the exact 104 degree temp… Nothing worked. I must have killed billions of yeast! Poor things.), yeast is just hard to deal with, so I’ve never touched it again. Believe it or not I love to cook, and I cater, on the side of Home Schooling my boys! Until a Sister of my church showed me your recipe, I swore I’d have to buy my breads; no matter how unhealthy, but have looked with longing eyes at all the fresh breads, and wishing for a way. She walked me through it(she’s been ‘breading’ for years! I could barely keep up! Ha) I’m still so apprehensive it all went by so fast, and I know I’ve missed a few things. I love the fact that I don’t have to deal with Gluten, because I just don’t know how to
I was trying to take as many notes as I can while she was doing it all, but I’m pretty sure I didn’t get all of it. She helped me to make my first batch, which was so excellent! My 3 sons, ate it all in about 15 mts! And of course they want an repeat performance, and I want to… I’m just not sure of myself, and I think I’m missing some instructions.
I have the basic recipe, which I got again ,off of your site, thanks! I had gaps in my notes. What I feel I’m miss-understanding is the whole part after I mix with a spoon. Don’t I have to let it rise first, for and hour, before refrigerating, for another hour? Then taking it out, shaping, putting it on the Pizza Board, with the corn meal under it to slide off, for >15mts?? When that’s done should I put the water into to pan before I slide the bread in or after?
How much after?
I’m sorry, I know this is alot of questions. I know I sound so ignorant, but I am, and I really want to get this right. It was so good to do, and for the first time I felt like maybe this is something I could do. As a single mom, I have such a busy day, and limited budget. I do what I can on-line, but couldn’t resist the opportunity to pick your brains, and get it straight from the horses mouth:)
I thank you for taking the time out of your busy days to read this. I did check out your website, but never saw the original recipe with all the instructions. So I came here. Whatever you can throw my way will help immeasurably… Eventually, I get the book for myself:)
Thank you, and may all your endeavors be successful.
D.JJJ

zoe said...
December 3, 2009 at 6:43 pm

Hi Dawn,

Here is the Master recipe from Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day in full: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/Artisan-Bread-In-Five-Minutes-A-Day.aspx It is taken straight from the book, so you should have all the information you need.

You might also like to watch our videos: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63

Thank you for trying the breads and enjoy! Zoë

Anglea said...
December 6, 2009 at 11:45 am

I’ve been out on a quest to make the perfect cinnamon rolls and have two questions… I’ve been using the master recipe from your “Healthy Breads” book. I’m rolling it out fairly thin and then do press down to even out/flatten after putting them in the pan. I’m finding that the dough isn’t getting too much oven spring so they’re a bit tough. Also, the center rises higher than the outside of the roll.

I’d appreciate any suggestions!
Thanks!
Angela

Ross said...
December 6, 2009 at 6:08 pm

Hi,
Tried a few batches, and am running into consistent results: I’m not getting the oven rise I’d like. Crust is strong. Crumb is dense, moist, bubbles small. Loaf spreads on stone, so I’ve taken to baking in a Dutch oven at 450 for whole wheat. One thing I notice – after more than 24 hours in the fridge, my dough “sinks” and bread made from it is more dense and rises even less than the first loaves from the same batch. I’m using fresh yeast. Any suggestions?

zoe said...
December 6, 2009 at 9:45 pm

Hi Angela,

I find that the cinnamon rolls are best made with one of the enriched doughs, they tend to produce a lighter roll. I love the brioche, or the challah if you want something slightly less rich.

Thanks, Zoë

zoe said...
December 6, 2009 at 9:49 pm

Hi Ross,

Before I can help you figure out how to get a better crumb I need to ask you a few questions.

How much fresh/cake yeast are you using?

Which recipe are you using? From HBin5?

What kind of flour are you using? Type and brand?

Thanks, we will try to help you get a better result. Zoë

Larry said...
December 16, 2009 at 9:47 am

I live at an altitude of 7300 ft. The recipe I have calls for 3 1/2 Tbl of yeast and Univ. of Colorado recommends reducing the yeast 25%. Would 3 Tbl work and do I have to add any water? I just get confused.

jeff said...
December 16, 2009 at 10:10 am

Larry: I’m confused, none of our recipes call for more than 1 1/2 tablespoons. Check out our high-altitude post at http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144. Jeff

Larry said...
December 16, 2009 at 10:29 am

Sorry Jeff. I intended to say 1 1/2 Tbl of yeast. Thanks for the link to the high-altitude stuff. I’ll check it out.

Paul said...
December 22, 2009 at 12:25 pm

Hi folks,

I wanted to confirm that less yeast works fine in your recipes… as I discovered myself. I tend to have a rather stuffed fridge, living with housemates, so to keep a big bowl of dough in the fridge for days is often impractical. I also have liked overnight rise breads I’ve tried in the past because it seems like a natural rhythm (waiting while you sleep)… shaping loaves and baking first thing in the morning and then getting on with the rest of the day. So, I tried using 1/2 tsp yeast in your master recipe and rising overnight. It works perfectly well for me, very similar results, just with a stretched out timeline.

Paul

zoe said...
December 22, 2009 at 8:35 pm

Hi Paul,

It is a wonderful alternative if it fits your schedule.

Thanks for letting us know! Zoë

cindy said...
February 5, 2010 at 12:36 pm

Good afternoon! In the hopes that someone can address my question soon–and if not, for next time–

I am making pizza using a 2-week-old white dough made with the minimal amount of yeast and the 1 pound of old dough incorporated as per the “sourdough” baguette roll recipe you posted. I am hoping for a full-flavored, chewy and crispy pizza crust. My first Bread-in-5 crusts were bland made with the Master recipe, about 4-7 days old.

Do I let the dough warm to room temp. before dividing and shaping? OR, do I divide the cold dough, then let it warm up, and then stretch into my pizza shapes? And should the dough rest after being shaped? If so, for how long before topping and baking?

Thank you, thank you!

cindy said...
February 5, 2010 at 7:55 pm

OK, more about my “old dough”, low-yeast batch for pizza! I divided the cold dough into balls (by the way, a 2-pound flour, 1 pound old dough, 24 oz of water batch made 5 12 oz balls, plus it left a pound for the next “old dough” batch), let it rest 2-3 hours, and shaped it right before topping it–and it made terrific crust!

I baked the red sauce pizzas with some garlic oil and homemade tomato sauce before putting cheese on them for a final bake. We also made caramelized onion, parm., arugula pizza as well as clam, parrano (gouda), herb. We wished we had our neighbors’ homemade goat cheese for the arugula one. Then we put together blueberry with cream cheese, brown sugar an cinnamon for dessert.

This 2-week old dough, with old dough integrated, did not taste like sourdough but was bubbly, crispy and chewy–and nicely extensible after the long rest. All with mere AP flour! Rivaled any regular pizza recipe. And as there was no oil in the dough, it was not spongy and bready, if you know what I mean.

The regular master recipe was hard to work with the first time I did it–the dough tore–the texture was not great–the taste was bland. That first time, I shaped the master recipe cold dough into pizza wheels and let it rise on peels. Perhaps letting the dough warm up a little, dividing it, letting it rest a long time, then shaping it is more important than the dough-making process?

jeff said...
February 5, 2010 at 8:49 pm

Cindy: For pizza, you can use cold dough, and no need for a rest after rolling it out. Jeff

Peter A (New Zealand) said...
March 3, 2010 at 2:25 am

Hi guys,

Baked 7 pizza breads and 10 pizzas in my woodfired oven on Saturday night. (retirement party) and they were a wonderful success. Numerous requests for the base recipe so have given copies of your master recipe including website address and NZ agent for your book. I use the basic bread dough that I refrigerate for one night. Following morning I shape balls of dough (150g for pizza bread and 200g for pizza) and place in small disposable plastic containers, lightly dusted with flour and the lid placed on. I place these in the fridge and use them that evening. outside by the oven I keep the preformed balls in a chilly bin (insulated transport box) and take out roll and dress just prior to baking. Takes about 2 minutes in the oven. I roll the dough into 10 inch circles as this is the size of the entrance to the oven and roll the pizza breads a little thinner than the pizza bases. it is so neat and tidy with very little mess.

Have also baked standard boules, brioche cinnamon whirls (in a muffin tin) pane epi, baguettes and betsy’s seed loaf but these are baked in the conventional oven at the moment. (on a pizza stone). Your method of dough preparation and baking is just so convenient and easy and it has become part of our routines so easily.
Thanks so much for sharing your recipes with us.

jeff said...
March 3, 2010 at 8:42 am

Peter: Thanks for sharing your party story with us, so glad the dough is working well for you. Jeff

amy y said...
March 5, 2010 at 6:05 pm

Hi,
Thank you so much for making a gluten free section. I eat gluten free (and yeast free as much as I can) and hadn’t had bread for I don’t know how long. The store GF bread is NOT good. This bread is fantastic and without all the yeast!! But I do have a guestion.
I have followed the Gluten free Boule bread recipe and cut the yeast in half (1 T), following your instructions. My dough is always EXTREMELY sticky, more so than any of your pictures. I don’t even have to slit the bread before baking, I can’t because it is too sticky. Even after raising it for 5 hours there doesn’t seem to be as much dough.
I’m not sure what I am doing wrong. don’t get me wrong it still tastes good. I would just like to see if I can improve it at all.
Do you have any tips or suggestions?
thanks for taking the time to read my question.
amy y.

zoe said...
March 5, 2010 at 9:01 pm

Hi Amy,

Thank you for trying the bread, I’m glad you are enjoying it. Are you measuring your flour with the scoop and sweep method? If you are spooning the flour into the measuring cup you will end up with too little flour and a wet dough.

Are you substituting any of the flours? I find that G-F flours all have very unique flavors and behave differently in the dough.

Let me know if either of these sounds right. Zoë

amy y said...
March 5, 2010 at 9:35 pm

Zoe,
I scoop and sweep my flours if that means I scoop them out and scrape them off with the back of a knife to make them level. I don’t spoon them into the measuring cup. I used all of the flours from your recpie. I followed it excatly minus the oil. I used a different oil. And today I decided to use the GF flour mix that I use for everything else and cut the water down by 1/3 cup to see if it makes a difference. The flours in my mix are Kamut, rice, oat, and Spelt all at different ratios of course. what other flours have you tried for your recpie?
any other suggestions would be wonderful,
thanks for talking with me, you are the expert., and I love getting the help :]
Amy Y.

jeff said...
March 6, 2010 at 10:34 am

Amy: If your stuff is wetter despite correct measuring, and you’re pretty sure that you’re using the same flours as we are, I would just use a little less liquid next time. Sometimes we just don’t get to the bottom of what’s different, and this is the best way to go. Maybe 1/8 cup less liquid, and next time 1/4.

All of the GF flours we liked are in the book, in chapter 9 of HBin5. Jeff

amy y said...
March 6, 2010 at 5:00 pm

jeff,
thanks for your help. I am very positive that the flours are the same as the recpie calls for. I’ll try the water thing.
thanks!!!!!
amy

Nancy said...
March 10, 2010 at 8:01 am

I’m finding that my bread is coming out really yeast-y tasting. I don’t know what this means? Is this normal or should I decrease the amount of yeast I’m using? (I buy baking yeast in bulk from my health food store, and it just occurred to me that I have no idea if it’s rapid yeast or active dry yeast, if it even makes a difference.)

jeff said...
March 10, 2010 at 1:04 pm

Nancy: In this post, we talk about using less yeast, and I think that will take care of your concern. It’s going to take longer to full rise before refrigeration, so just be aware of that. But you can use as little as a quarter dose of the yeast amount we talk about in the books.

Doesn’t matter if it’s rapid or not, it all comes out in the wash with this method. Jeff

Nancy said...
March 11, 2010 at 2:27 am

Thanks, Jeff. I just wasn’t sure if the yeast-y taste was something that I needed to get used to or not

Andrea said...
March 14, 2010 at 1:16 pm

Last week I made a batch of honey wheat sandwich dough. I baked one loaf and it turned out fabulous!! I stored the remaining dough in the refrigerator for about 5 days. When I took the dough out to bake the second loaf, it smelled somewhat fermented. I baked it anyway, and noticed that the bread tasted funny too…again it was sort of fermented tasting. The first loaf didn’t taste that way at all. Is that a result of the yeast multiplying over the course of 5 days, or did the dough possibly go bad?

jeff said...
March 15, 2010 at 10:23 am

Andrea: Our doughs mature in flavor through the storage process and develop sourdough notes. That’s not to everyone’s taste. One thing to try would be the low-yeast versions of our stuff. Go to the FAQs page and click on the question about “Yeast: can I decrease…”

Flavor will be milder and less of commercial yeast. But– first rising will take longer, be aware. Jeff

rebecka veil said...
March 15, 2010 at 10:59 am

I ordered your book Friday from amazon, and it should arrive tomorrow, but I couldn’t wait so mixed up some dough on Saturday and made 1 loaf Sunday morning (from the SplendidTable recipe). I baked the loaf at 450 for 30 minutes (forgot to test it with an instant-read thermometer–just stared at it hungrily while waiting for it to cool!). The crust and color were beautiful, but it still looked sort of wet inside. I figured I should have left it in longer than 30 minutes.

So, Sunday evening I tried another loaf. I baked it at 450 in for 40 minutes and, though the color and crust were again wonderful, that must have been too long, because this time I did remember to do an instant-read check with a probe thermometer, and it was 204 degrees. After letting this 2nd loaf cool, I broke into it fearing I might find it dry. But, it was the same as the first loaf–kind of wet looking.

Did I use the wrong yeast?–I used Fleischmann’s Bread Machine Yeast (it says it can be used in an oven or machine); it’s sold in a glass jar, must be refrigerated after opening, looks like it’s granulated (though the label doesn’t say it’s granulated); the label also says “also ideal for all RapidRise recipes”, and also cautions against letting the yeast come into direct contact with liquids or salt in a breach-machine recipe.

All that yeast info is pretty confusing to me (I can cook, but my baking is usually limited to one birthday cake a year!).

The only other deviation from the SplendidTable recipe was that, instead of a baking stone, I used my 2-burner stovetop Lodge cast iron griddle/grill, which was a 450 degrees for both loaves. (I have a laser thermogun, so am sure of this.)

zoe said...
March 15, 2010 at 7:39 pm

Hi Rebecka,

Here is a post on baking the perfect loaf of bread with our method. http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1616 I bet the issue is not the yeast or the baking, but the amount of time the loaf rested before putting it in the oven. Read through the post and let us know if it helps.

Here is more information about dense crumb: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=141

Thanks and let us know if you have more questions! Zoë

rebecka veil said...
March 15, 2010 at 8:53 pm

Thanks, Zoe. I will read both posts and try again. FYI, for my first batch I had the dough sit out for 5 hours after mixing (my kitchen is way under 68 degrees–probably more like 62), and after the overnight refrigeration rested it for 40 minutes before baking.

jeff said...
March 16, 2010 at 1:20 pm

Rebecka: Bet you’ll be happier with a longer proofing time (60 to 90 minutes for white bread, and definitely 90 minutes for whole grain).

Try 205 to 210 degrees for lean breads like this on the instant-read…

Jeff

Bo Hica said...
March 16, 2010 at 6:00 pm

On the topic of yeast – I like the flavor, so I don’t really want to decrease it. However, in normal retail quantities it can be expensive. I found that in both Sams club and BJ’s – you can buy a package that contains 2, 1# bags of vacum packed yeast (similar to the vacum bagged ground coffees) – for less than $4. I think it’s about $1.75/lb in these packs. 2# of yeast will last a long long time. Fleischmanns is the brand, and it’s from Canada.

This past year, I included a 1lb package in each of my Christmas packages with the AB in 5 book, a cambro dough bucket, and yeast – plus my insider “protips” for using the book and recipes.

Reading this thread… now I want a “laser thermogun”!

zoe said...
March 16, 2010 at 7:50 pm

Hi Bo,

I want a “laser thermogun” too! We always buy our yeast in bulk as well, best and cheapest way. Just be sure to store it in the freezer so it will last a long time!

Thanks, Zoë

Marcia said...
March 19, 2010 at 5:50 am

Hi. I decided to make challah as my first attempt at your bread. I mixed up a 1/2 batch of challah yesterday. I reduced the yeast (SAF instant) a bit, to 2 tsps, rather than 2.25. It sat on the counter for about 2 1/2 – 3 hours and then I put it in the refrigerator. Several hours later it had risen up nicely. The plastic container was clear, so I could see that the sides looked like a sponge. So far, so good.

This morning I opened the refrigerator and it had collapsed. It’s not much bigger than when I first put it in the container.

Is this normal or has something bad happened? Should I give it an extra long resting time before it goes in the oven? Should I have used the full measure of yeast? If it helps to know, I used KA AP flour and large eggs and the water felt just warmish to my touch. Thanks!

jeff said...
March 19, 2010 at 7:27 am

Marcia: This is normal, don’t worry! It will get oven spring after it hits the oven. Not to mention that there will be proofing rise as well (though not as much as you’re used to). Jeff

rebecka veil said...
March 21, 2010 at 10:02 am

Okay–it turns out I had done several things wrong! It’s entirely possible that I used bleached flour for the first batch (the flour was in a clear plastic container, and I threw away the bag months ago). I also suspect I abused the dough when I mixed it with a spoon (I was determined not to see any dry flour bits!); there wasn’t much fridge rise. Also (I know–adding insult to injury here!) I closed the container tight during the fridge rise.

Anyway, for the 2nd batch, I used my stand mixer with the dough hook, added the last few bits of the first batch, and didn’t put on the cover tightly in the fridge. The crumb was much improved!

I then tried your challah recipe, which came out better than I possibly could have imagined. The loaf was gloriously colored and the braids were beautiful, the fragrance was superb and the taste and texture unbelievable. My neighbor and I couldn’t wait for it to cool, so ate half of it almost immediately, pulling off pieces and slathering them with butter. (Yes, we were bad….) Next I tried the challah dough with the pletzl recipe, and very much liked that, too.

Question 1: For the boule dough, the crust is crisp, but is a bit too hard and thick for my elderly father, who has dentures. What can I try to get a thinner but still crispy crust?

Question 2: What flour do I use to make classic Italian bread? Lots of garlic-bread lovers in this family!

jeff said...
March 21, 2010 at 5:30 pm

Rebecka: Thin and crisp crust is usually the happy result from a good steam dose in the oven. Does your oven make a nice seal? Could try a little more water in the broiler pan (1 1/2 cup)? Or try one of our steam alternatives (like the Dutch oven, or spritzing with water from a food-grade sprayer, 3 times in the first 2 minutes of baking), or using a foil lasagne pan over the bread.

We make our Italian breads from all-purpose flour; should work well for you. If you like something chewier, go with bread, flour, but increase the water by about 1/4 to 1/2 cup (will depend on which bread flour you use). Jeff

Sachiko said...
March 25, 2010 at 3:16 pm

Every time I use white flour with any other kind of flour (whole wheat or rye, etc) my crust is hard as a rock. The next day, the crust is thicker and it is almost impossible to eat, once I hurt my gums with the crust. I know that milk and honey makes a tender crust but I don’t want to use it all the time.

Am I doing something wrong? I follow your recipe taithfully but my results are not the same.

zoe said...
March 25, 2010 at 10:40 pm

Hi Sachiko,

Which recipe are you working on? Depending on how much whole grain flour is in the recipe the dough may require a longer rest time. This will lighten up the dough before baking and help it to rise and bake properly.

Are you using a baking stone, steam and checked your oven temperature with an oven thermometer? If the oven is running hot or cool it will effect the baking time and may result in a tough crust.

Let us know about these points and we can help you further.

Thanks, Zoë

rebecka veil said...
March 27, 2010 at 11:04 am

[jeff said...
March 21, 2010 at 5:30 pm

"We make our Italian breads from all-purpose flour; should work well for you. If you like something chewier, go with bread, flour, but increase the water by about 1/4 to 1/2 cup (will depend on which bread flour you use)."]

Does that mean that “Italian bread” is indistinguishable (except by shape) from the Master Recipe boule dough? One of my great loves in life is garlic bread, and I won’t buy prepared garlic bread (ooh–the preservatives!), and a loaf of good Italian bread from the bakery often goes dry before I can use it all. I love all your breads that I’ve made so far (2 Master recipes, 1 Challah, 1 deli-style rye, 1 brioche), but my principal reason for taking up bread-making is so that I can make my own garlic bread. I’ve got the roasted garlic-butter-parmesan-salt spread part of it down, but it doesn’t taste authentic on the Master Recipe boule dough.

Any hints?

jeff said...
March 27, 2010 at 3:35 pm

Rebecka: For all intents and purposes, yes. Have you put sesame seeds on the crust of the Master Recipe bread– but do it as an elongated loaf, see what you think… Jeff

Lisa said...
March 28, 2010 at 7:50 am

I use SAF instant red yeast. This type of yeast needs to be reduced in other recipes.

How much should I use in your recipes?

Thank you.

jeff said...
March 28, 2010 at 11:52 am

Lisa: Do whatever the manufacturer’s label recommends (I wasn’t aware that the manufacturer was recommending less). If you want to really turn down the yeast, check out our post on this at http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=85. Jeff

mira said...
April 4, 2010 at 10:32 am

amy y on mar 5 commented on her gf four mix..spelt is NOT gf and the oat may or may not be….wheat free and gluten free are NOT the same. this is an important distinction for the celiac community

jeff said...
April 4, 2010 at 11:10 am

Correct, Mira. She was talking about “wheat allergy,” or “wheat intolerance,” which is ill-defined. There’s a group of people out there who say they do poorly with wheat, but fine with spelt. It couldn’t be the gluten, since, as you say, spelt has gluten. But— it has less. The medical community doesn’t yet know what to tell these folks, except “don’t argue with success.” If people feel better on spelt than wheat, then by all means eat spelt. Jeff

marcia said...
April 8, 2010 at 5:56 am

You guys are so great with the prompt advice! I hope I get some today. I decided to try a batch of challah with minimal yeast (1/4 tsp for a half batch). I know up above you say 6-12 hours to rise, but then I thought I remembered you saying something somewhere about not leaving the enriched dough out for too long. I can’t find it on the website, so now I’m thinking I saw it when I flipped through your Healthy Bread book in the library the other day. It’s on order, but in the meantime, how long should I leave my challah dough on the counter? If it matters, it’s a warm day here, so it will probably be around 70-72 in my kitchen and I used all unbleached AP flour. Thanks!

jeff said...
April 8, 2010 at 7:32 am

Marcia: The answer is that no one really knows the answer to this question, which is a food safety question– we don’t specifically address it in our books. Raw egg shouldn’t be left out too long at room temp. How long is too long? US Department of Agriculture (USDA) is very conservative on this question (see http://origin-www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Focus_On_Shell_Eggs/index.asp); they say 2 hours is the max. Understand that this makes it impossible to do a slow-risen egg-enriched dough (though we’ve found that two hours on the counter is enough even for a 33% yeast reduction; problem is that you’re talking about an 8-fold reduction). The risk is salmonella and other food-borne illnesses. Even though eggs in baked breads are fully cooked, the USDA is clear on this– 2 hours.

USDA is very conservative– for example, you basically can’t eat hamburger with any pink in it, according to USDA.

One middle-of-the-road approach would be to refrigerate at 2 hours regardless of where the batch is, in terms of rise. Then, allow the completion of rising at refrigerator temperature. It will take 18 to 36 hours. Great question– I’ve just updated the FAQ about this with this info, at http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=85 Jeff

joanna said...
April 25, 2010 at 8:11 am

Quick question… I’m a first-time bread maker and I just made the full dose bread dough. I am a little bit confused about the “aging” process. Must I wait the full 14 days before I can bake the bread? Or does it mean that the dough expires after “14″ days? Sorry – I just want to make sure and not screw this up!

zoe said...
April 25, 2010 at 9:01 pm

Hi Joanna,

You can use the dough any time over the 14 days. It is easier to use after it has been refrigerated for several hours.

Enjoy and happy baking! Zoë

Dina said...
April 28, 2010 at 10:55 pm

i made half a batch with 1 tsp yeast ,let it rise for 4 hrs then stored it in the fridge for 24 hours, and for the second rise i let it rise for 4 hours and baked it using the dutch oven….and it was realy REALY good, the tast was superior,i will not experiment any more i am making the perfect broule .
thanks again to Jeff and zoe

jeff said...
April 29, 2010 at 7:03 am

Dina: so glad this is working so well for you…

Larry said...
May 16, 2010 at 3:51 pm

I’ve been baking from both of your books for about 2 months, with much success. I just tried the Olive spelt bread from Hbin5, using greek yogurt and bread flower instead of regular flower. I added a little extra water. I also reduced to 1tbs yeast. Despite 4 hour intial rise, when I leave it out before baking it just spreads, and I get a very flat loaf. Is the greek yogurt too heavy? Is there something else I can try? I haven’t had this problem before. Thanks for the books – I haven’t baked bread since college and I’m baking several times a week now.

zoe said...
May 16, 2010 at 8:04 pm

Hi Larry,

I suspect the problem is not the type of yogurt, but the extra water. The spelt has very little gluten and therefore tends to make a wet dough, so adding any additional water may make it too wet. If you have any dough left I would add more flour to dry it out a bit and let the dough sit for a couple of hours to allow the flour to absorb the excess water.

So glad you are baking so much bread! Enjoy, Zoë

Wendy said...
June 2, 2010 at 3:48 pm

The Cracked Wheat Bread in HBin5 p109 says “By blending cracked wheat with white whole wheat and traditional whole wheat…” while the ingredient list calls for white whole wheat, unbleached all-purpose flour and cracked wheat. Can I use whole wheat for the largest quantity and white wheat for the lesser?

sue said...
June 2, 2010 at 8:00 pm

Since partway through the baking process we are to remove the cookie sheet and let the loaf bake directly on the oven rack, can we use a cookie sheet directly on the oven rack for the first part of baking and not use a baking stone at all?

zoe said...
June 2, 2010 at 8:28 pm

Hi Wendy,

I am sorry that is so confusing. The recipe is written and tested with the white whole wheat and unbleached all-purpose flour. If you want to use a combination of white whole wheat and traditional whole wheat you can, but you should not substitute it for the unbleached all-purpose. The whole grain flours absorb a different amount of water and it will throw off the consistency of the bread.

I hope that makes sense? Thanks, Zoë

zoe said...
June 2, 2010 at 8:41 pm

Hi Sue,

If you are using a cookie sheet it is not absolutely necessary to have the baking stone in the oven.

Thanks, Zoe

Debby said...
June 9, 2010 at 12:33 pm

Can I freeze the dough ubaked and thaw as needed? We just wouldn’t use all the dough for pizza making within a week.
Thanks for your time.

jeff said...
June 9, 2010 at 12:39 pm

Debby: Freezing, yes! In single-use portions is best, and 4 weeks max.

Pat said...
June 12, 2010 at 10:58 am

I read your book and have tried several receipes . They all have been delicious, thanks you for writing the book.
I would like to make a golden raisin and fennel bread using one of your basic recepies. which one do I use and do I need to add another type of flour such as wheat? The idea of making this bread came from having a taste recently at a friend”s house. It was very tasty and thought I would try making it at home.
I’m sure you can help me. Thank you both.

zoe said...
June 12, 2010 at 12:08 pm

Hi Pat,

Was the bread you had soft crusted and sweet or did it have a crisp crust and a denser crumb? You can really add those ingredients to any of our doughs by rolling them in. It will just depend on the type of bread you want those flavors in.

This is how you can roll the ingredients into the dough: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1950#

Thanks, Zoe

Alex said...
June 13, 2010 at 5:52 pm

Hi,
I find that my loaves have a slightly funny flavour to them. I can’t quite put my finger on it. My yeast and flour is fine, they are not the issue. I am making the European Peasant Bread with at least 2 day old dough but have found this with the basic white as well. One of my approaches will be to reduce the yeast. But I was wondering whether I can skip the initial room temperature rise. I have tried the version of your basic white recipe from the King Arthur Flour site and they suggest you can skip it. I did and liked that flavour better. But that was a while ago and I can’t remember how long the dough has to be in the fridge for before baking. What are your thoughts on that?
Cheers, Alex (from Australia)

Alex said...
June 13, 2010 at 5:54 pm

Oh and by the way, I have your first 2 books and bake from them all the time. I was also wondering about the whole wheat sandwich bread from HBin5. I found it too sweet. Can i just use quarter of the honey or do I have to add something else for moisture?
Alex

jeff said...
June 14, 2010 at 8:05 am

Alex: If you’re perceiving an alcohol flavor or smell, that is usually solved by venting the dough-storage container, either by drilling a tiny hole in the lid, or by keeping it open a crack. Some people who are highly sensitive to this smell need to leave the lid open a crack for the whole batch-life, others can snap it shut after 48 hours.

If it’s the flavor of commercial yeast that’s putting you off, you should see a big difference when you decrease the yeast; see http://tinyurl.com/yate3j6 .

About the WW sandwich bread: Try decreasing the honey by half, and adding an extra two tablespoons of water and see if that’s about right.

Alex said...
June 15, 2010 at 5:34 pm

Thanks for your reply, Jeff. I actually had the dough stored in a bowl covered loosely witth cling wrap. Other times I have been known to just cover the bowl with a plate which never seals it completely. So venting shouldn’t have been the issue. And I actually like the flavour of yeast (I used to like eating a little cake yeast as a child – strange, I know). But I just got myself a dough storage container yesterday, so on my next batch I will try to half the yeast and leave the container open a little.

As for the WW bread, I’ll try this and let you know how I go.

Lori said...
June 22, 2010 at 8:18 am

I’m trying to bake Gluten Free, Egg Free and Dairy Free – have allergies to all of the above. Can’t use flax as a substitute – know you can use chia seed, applesauce and vinegar – but these are normally for 1 egg – how to you handle the Crusty Boule GF that calls for 4 eggs – would I use a combination of egg substitutes?? The Ener Egg Replacer is awful – tried that… Thanks for your time, Lori

Lori said...
June 22, 2010 at 8:19 am

Yeast question on the GF breads – do you use Active Dry Yeast or the Saf-Instant yeast for the crusty GF boule? Thanks again

zoe said...
June 23, 2010 at 1:23 am

Hi Lori,

I have only tried the flax, but had no difficulty substituting for all the eggs. You can try this with your preferred replacement. Maybe try a half batch to make sure you like the results. I have never used the chia seed, but am anxious to give it a try.

Thanks, Zoe

zoe said...
June 23, 2010 at 1:25 am

Hi Lori,

We both use RED STAR dry active yeast, but I have also tried it with the fresh cake yeast, instant, rapid rise and Saf-instant, all with great results. In other words it just doesn’t seem to matter so use your favorite. We try to buy in bulk to save on cost.

Thanks, Zoe

Andria said...
July 22, 2010 at 9:22 pm

Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I just started baking your way a few days ago.
I made a bucket of basic dough and the bread were beautiful and delicious.
The only thing i didn’t like so much was the strong yeast smell right after it came out of the oven. It didn’t smell as strong after the bread was cooled. I am just wondering if this has happened to other people and how do i correct it? Thanks so much! I can’t wait to try different dough.
Andria in California

zoe said...
July 23, 2010 at 8:25 am

Hi Andria,

As you see from this post it is just fine to decrease the yeast, which may be more to your liking. Also you should make sure that you are venting the becket well to prevent the gases from building up.

Thanks, Zoë

Andria said...
July 23, 2010 at 9:40 pm

OK Zoe. I will try. Thanks a lot! You guys are amazing!!

Bonnie said...
July 24, 2010 at 10:22 am

I have both your books and love the bread! I also have been making my own kefir and would like to use that in place of the yeast and as part of the water. Any suggestions on amount, ratio, or initial rise time? I’ve been reading up on the probiotic benefits of sprouting grains and soaking flour with kefir to mitigate effects of phytic acid. Works great with steel cut oats for oatmeal and I would like to try it with your bread method. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Bonnie in Lino

jeff said...
July 24, 2010 at 2:44 pm

Bonnie: I’m wasn’t aware that kefir could be used to leaven bread– don’t know that it produces enough gas and haven’t tried it. The closest I can come to helping you is to steer your toward our post on natural leavening: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1284

Some people have claimed that our long-stored dough is, in some sense, “soaking” for that time. Don’t know if there are health benefits with this or not. Jeff

Bonnie said...
July 25, 2010 at 12:39 pm

I replaced one cup of water with one cup of kefir but ended up adding a little yeast after 24 hours because the dough didn’t rise much without it. The kefir also changed the consistency (very wet) so the loaf I baked today was pretty spread out and flat. Sure tastes good, though! I’ll do some more research and experiment a little until I get the benefits of soaking the flour with kefir (or some other mildly acidic liquid) as well as a taller loaf. Thanks for your help.

Bonnie

jeff said...
July 25, 2010 at 12:50 pm

Bonnie: Thanks for letting me know what happened– I was worried about the rising power of the bacteria in yogurt. Natural sours and levains typically contain a mixture of beneficial bacterias plus wild yeasts. The yeast is what’s missing in the kefir.

I bet it did taste good though, nice tang to that…

Alex said...
July 28, 2010 at 8:42 pm

Just a quick not on the Kefir. If you are making authentic Kefir from propagable grains, it actually does contain bacteria AND yeasts (unlike yoghurt). But I’m not sure it would have enough leavening power by itself. it can however be used to prepare a sourdough starter. There is an Australian guy called Dom who has lots of Kefir info. Google Kefir sourdough and you should find his site (I hope it’s alright to mention another site).

I posted a while ago about the Soft wholewheat sandwich bread from HBin5 being too sweet for me. I ended up making it with only 1 Tbsp Honey and a little extra butter instead (had melted a bit too much) and it turned out fine. While the flavour is good, the texture of the sandwich breads always seem a little too crumbly for my liking, so today I will just make a sandwich loaf from the wholewheat master recipe with the method from this post: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=904
I hope my kids will like this better.
I was also wondering whether it would be alright to replace part or all the water with liquid milk?
Your method is so easy that it makes it fun to start experimenting and adapting to get the perfect loaf for your own taste.

jeff said...
July 29, 2010 at 4:54 am

Alex: Milk is fine in place of water, give it a shot. It can act as a tenderizer.